Ask The Experts
General Category => Ask the Experts => Topic started by: Chuckles_the_Clown2 on June 05, 2007, 08:59:46 PM
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Rags to Riches enters the Belmont and Garret (I wish I were bigtime Gomez) tries to renege upon his commitment to Hard Spun.
This concern goes out urgently to Larry Jones. Anyone knowing the Happy Cowboy, please advise him that opportunity knocks once in a lifetime and that when it knocks one must be prepared to answer the door without distraction or impediment. Mr. Jones, you have a cancer in your midst. That cancer is Garret Wee Man Gomez. He is infecting your horse and your future with his negativity. Now is not the time to try and retain him. When jockeys can\'t meet their commitments leading up to big races they dont meet your expectations in the running of those races.
You\'re not a young trainer. You\'ve seen it all. We don\'t need to go into detail. You wan\'t a Jockey tested at 12 furlongs and ready to run his eyeballs out for YOU? Pick up the Phone and dial 1-800-Jeremy Rose. Or put Mario Pino back up. It takes a big man to reverse a bad decision. It takes a little man to ignore bad developments. Don\'t play around with this disease in your midst. Opportunity knocked for Garret Gomez and he was out to lunch. Its knocking for you right now.
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Hey Chuck,
I kind of like your \"Manning Up\" or \"Horsing Up\" series of posts.
Nice work...
NC Tony
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Chuckles_the_Clown2 Wrote:
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> This concern goes out urgently to Larry Jones.
> Anyone knowing the Happy Cowboy, please advise him
> that opportunity knocks once in a lifetime and
> that when it knocks one must be prepared to answer
> the door without distraction or impediment. Mr.
> Jones, you have a cancer in your midst. That
> cancer is Garret Wee Man Gomez. He is infecting
> your horse and your future with his negativity.
> Now is not the time to try and retain him. When
> jockeys can\'t meet their commitments leading up to
> big races they dont meet your expectations in the
> running of those races.
Out of all your moronic posts, this one tops all. Gomez is a cancer? He can\'t meet his commitment? You\'re pathetically trying to create drama out of nothing.
If Hard Spun is ready to run his race, then he\'ll run his race. Whether his odds will be fair for taking the risk on that \"if\" is another issue. Gomez will do the best he can and that\'s better than anybody right now. Show a little respect for once, even if you have none for yourself.
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Flat out, I am urging Larry Jones to fire Gomez for the stunt involving the politics to avoid his commitment to ride Hard Spun. The language used by the agent was additional reason to dismiss Gomez and not deal with that kind of negativity again.
Looking at it from Gomez\'s agent\'s perspective. It seems pretty clear that Rags to Riches is the class of the filly crop and can probably win about any race among 3YO fillies she is pointed for and its possible that Hard Spun may only be 3rd best of the boys. Additionally, if Johnny V gets a big run out of Rags to Riches in the Belmont, its probably \"Adios\" for Gomez. Why should Pletcher turn her back over to Gomez at that point? From a selfish pecuniary perspective, I can understand Gomez and Anderson trying to take off Hard Spun. From an ethical and intangible perspective I consider it dishonor and deceit. In that regard I\'d strongly suggest that you might want to reflect upon integrity yourself before you question the bona fides of others.
Perhaps unlike you and others, I\'m not prone to place much stock in the jockey. Any number of 4 dozen jockeys could ride Hard Spun with having had the opportunity to ride the better mounts previously. What counts with me is a jockey that meets his commitments. If a Jockey commits to work a horse prior to a big race he sure as hell better show up for that work. If a jockey commits to ride a horse in a big race, he sure as hell better not attempt to renege upon his honor to avoid his word and that ride. Those kind of circumtances are negative and cancerous. They infect and spread and the reason they spread is because the horse itself has empathy for the non verbal. A horse can sense the confidence and enthusiasm of those surrounding it. A horse can also sense the negative. Those intangible factors and an individual\'s breach of honor matter far more to me than a cancerous wee man and his monetary machinations.
I am also exhorting Larry Jones to not employ Gomez in the future.
Now go get a shrink.
CtC
flushedstraight Wrote:
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> Chuckles_the_Clown2 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > This concern goes out urgently to Larry Jones.
> > Anyone knowing the Happy Cowboy, please advise
> him
> > that opportunity knocks once in a lifetime and
> > that when it knocks one must be prepared to
> answer
> > the door without distraction or impediment. Mr.
> > Jones, you have a cancer in your midst. That
> > cancer is Garret Wee Man Gomez. He is infecting
> > your horse and your future with his negativity.
> > Now is not the time to try and retain him.
> When
> > jockeys can\'t meet their commitments leading up
> to
> > big races they dont meet your expectations in
> the
> > running of those races.
>
>
> Out of all your moronic posts, this one tops all.
> Gomez is a cancer? He can\'t meet his commitment?
> You\'re pathetically trying to create drama out of
> nothing.
>
> If Hard Spun is ready to run his race, then he\'ll
> run his race. Whether his odds will be fair for
> taking the risk on that \"if\" is another issue.
> Gomez will do the best he can and that\'s better
> than anybody right now. Show a little respect for
> once, even if you have none for yourself.
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CTC,
Great post Chuckles.It\'s blatently obvious Gomez is not \"old school\".
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Flushed,
Gomez reminds me of that spoiled little kid in the first Harry Potter movie
crying about only receiving 36 presents,when only last year he received 37.
Gomez already dropped his credibility when he tried to weasel out of his
commitment.What he should have done was not say a word and focus on being a
true pro.I cannot agree with Chuckles more emphatically.
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Chucktacular Bid:
You have been in top form lately, but do not get too wrapped up in \"politics\".
Quite possible that Anderson/Gomez think that a fresh RTR is a more likely
Belmont winner than a hard spent Hard Spun, and I tend to agree with them.
Other comments (mostly repeats):
Curlin: Albarado 4/5 no value, wins easily or bounces like a superball.
Appearance wise, have always been a sucker for a flashy chestnut and this is a
good looking critter.
Hard Spun: Tired Now.
RTR: Do not think she was ever pointed towards this race, TAP looks to take
advantage of 2 vulnerable favorites and a short field.
Tiago: Has a shot off TG #s and race spacing, but how disgusting will it be when
Iron Mike Smith saves no ground in a short field at 1- 1/2 miles?
Imwildncrazy: Lets see. NW3LT. Both career wins at CRC, the original synthetic
surface. Non winner as a 3YO. Never won a stake. $17,000 yearling running
against horses who have changed hands for $millions. As fast as Tiago, but like
Tiago will offer no value in a short field.
Digger: Thank God Lawrence the Plumber put his tomato can back on the shelf.
At first glance, looking at leaving Curlin and HS out of P4s and P6s.
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Dont forget that RTR will be in receipt of 5 pounds which I believe is one point which I believe equates to some serious ground over one mile and half.
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You\'ve really outdone yourself this time, Drama Queen.
Are you saying Gomez is the only top jockey to ever try to get out of a commitment?? There have been many jockeys that have gotten out of commitments when circumstances change. Where was all of your righteous indignation then??
Judging by how upset you are, I almost thought he asked off of Easy Goer.
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And in the final chapter of the Holiest of the Holy books, written by prophets and seers of visions, it is said that in the end after running very fast without adequate time to rest and recover, Pegasus and his kind will reacte to those strenous efforts and will fall from grace with the Bounce. So sayeth the seers.
In 2005, four horses came to the Derby off Specatular Efforts. They were,
Bellamy Road -4, Four weeks rest
Bandini -3, Three weeks rest
Afleet Alex -2, Three weeks Rest and
Greeleys Galaxy -2, Four weeks rest
When the race was over the Fab Four were nowhere to be seen and Giacomo ran a smooth even paced race to win at 50-1. The Book of Rapture and Bounce prophesied that the Fab Four would not bless their backers and it was so.
The Righteous play this Belmont may be to toss Curlin the King. He ran a number in the Preakness that is generally reactive and he ran very hard in the later stages of that race to pull it off. Curlin comes back on 3 weeks rest to run in the most demanding race he will face in his career.
However, Curlin has already broken the mold in many respects. By observation he is blooming at Elmont. The wise play is to not buck the Book of Bounce with a short odds favorite, but I\'m getting the sense this horse can break some more trends.
The filly is an interesting addition, but she\'s a filly, and not as fast as the colts despite the weight concession. She\'s also only attempted 9 panels. They may believe she is bred to go on and on, but shes certainly never been there, nor been as far as the boys either. I like her pedigree, but I\'ve seen plenty of A.p.Indy\'s that dont want to run past 9 poles also.
Four horses intrigue me. Wild Guy, C.P. West, Slew\'s Tizzy and Tiago. The pace of the race will be a factor but these four have shown enough in respective races to merit careful consideration.
Of all the horses running, Slew\'s Tizzy is the horse with the pedigree that is the most sneaky for back breeding to win at this distance.
There really isn\'t a horse that can be tossed from the exotics, let alone the win spot with the possible exception of the filly. (Same as it ever was.) However, in this case I give Pletcher the credit for daring greatly.
Its a good race and is going to require very careful bets to win.
richiebee Wrote:
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> Chucktacular Bid:
>
> You have been in top form lately, but do not get
> too wrapped up in \"politics\".
> Quite possible that Anderson/Gomez think that a
> fresh RTR is a more likely
> Belmont winner than a hard spent Hard Spun, and I
> tend to agree with them.
>
> Other comments (mostly repeats):
>
> Curlin: Albarado 4/5 no value, wins easily or
> bounces like a superball.
> Appearance wise, have always been a sucker for a
> flashy chestnut and this is a
> good looking critter.
>
> Hard Spun: Tired Now.
>
> RTR: Do not think she was ever pointed towards
> this race, TAP looks to take
> advantage of 2 vulnerable favorites and a short
> field.
>
> Tiago: Has a shot off TG #s and race spacing, but
> how disgusting will it be when
> Iron Mike Smith saves no ground in a short field
> at 1- 1/2 miles?
>
> Imwildncrazy: Lets see. NW3LT. Both career wins at
> CRC, the original synthetic
> surface. Non winner as a 3YO. Never won a stake.
> $17,000 yearling running
> against horses who have changed hands for
> $millions. As fast as Tiago, but like
> Tiago will offer no value in a short field.
>
> Digger: Thank God Lawrence the Plumber put his
> tomato can back on the shelf.
>
> At first glance, looking at leaving Curlin and HS
> out of P4s and P6s.
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Hard Spun,CP West and Tizzy have all been on it or up close going fast.
Tizzy even with blinkers off was tracking quick splits in the Lone Star.Cp West chased fast splits in his last two.I\'ve seen Gomez get stupid in this race last year on Bob and John.Too fast to the half trying to fend off a sprinter High Finance.
Have to wonder if any of the three can rate and relax without pulling going a sensible clip.Leaning against.
Brings the gallopers Crazy guy and Tiago into the mix,and maybe to the top if Curlin goes back.The filly is the x-factor.
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P-Dub Wrote:
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> Are you saying Gomez is the only top jockey to
> ever try to get out of a commitment?? There have
> been many jockeys that have gotten out of
> commitments when circumstances change.
Do you mean like Velazquez getting off Slews Tizzy in the same race in question? I suppose Johnny is a spoiled little deceitful cancerous weasel along with GG.
Et Tu Angel? How could you have assisted your prized protege in sinking this low?
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Flushed,
Thanks for the reminder.In addition to all of your suppositions you may
want to add highly overrated.
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Chuck,
I can tell you are off your meds again.You must know that Garret Gomez is one of the best riders of today, other issues aside.
Incidentally, the things posted here re Gomez, Johnny V. are NOTHING compared to the moves that Jerry Bailey would make to try take away a mount from another jockey.
Mike
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TGJB,
What is your read of RTR getting the 5 lbs. On the scale of weights she is just brought to equality with the colts.Is it your opinion that she still has a point edge because you are looking strictly at how fast they run and dismissing gender.
Mike
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Miff-- I just make the one point adjustment to the figures. On average, fillies at all levels are about 3 points slower than colts (and in fact the Oaks went exactly 3 points slower than the Derby), so if they really wanted to make things equal they would have to give them 15 pounds. That\'s why it\'s so tough for fillies to beat colts-- but not all situations are \"average\".
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TGJB,
Thanks, I would think that RTR is not average, so far.
Mike
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\"On average, fillies at all levels are about 3 points slower than colts (and in fact the Oaks went exactly 3 points slower than the Derby\"
Have you found any evidence that fillies mature earlier physically than colts (like with humans)?
I\'ve compiled some evidence that suggests that the gap between the best 2YO fillies and best 2YO colts is narrower than when they are older horses. It seems to start widening as the colts start getting closer to maturity late in their 3YO careers.
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We haven\'t run this, since the averages aren\'t relevant when betting individual horses. Certainly is possible.
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It seems that every year from April to about July, the two year old fillies beat the boys in a lot of the stakes and maiden races so there should be something to this thory. I\'ve been betting that angle for years now. It usually produces good payoffs too...
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miff Wrote:
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> Incidentally, the things posted here re Gomez,
> Johnny V. are NOTHING compared to the moves that
> Jerry Bailey would make to try take away a mount
> from another jockey.
You mean like Bailey getting Saint Liam after the Whitney loss, Prado\'s 9th straight ride on him? Who was Bailey\'s agent, Ron something or other? I don\'t exactly remember the Warrens looking too regretful in the winners circle at the BC for their bad sportsmanship, and Prado didn\'t exactly suffer, going on to win top jock honors the next year. It\'s part of the game.
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I agree, part of the game. FYI,Trickey kinda pleaded for Prado to stay on but Mr Warren insisted. Trickey never had much time for Bailey.
Mike
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Mike,
Any scoop on English Channel? Tempting to toss but seeing the way Honey Ryder bounced back from Dubai I\'m cautious. 33% TAP\'s got me scratching my head again.
(BTW, still waiting for CQ to get back to his top)
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Flush,
TAP very hot in NY right now, especially on grass.Don\'t think the Dubai trip is as bad as it once was, seems trainers have kinda figured it out.
Re CQ,this is a real small horse who did not appear the same after the FG race and a few trained eyes feel he doesn\'t look real strong.
Mike
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The Key Factor from the Louisiana Derby is not that Circular Way ran fast. It is that he ran fast to edge mediocre horses. An interesting angle in that regard is that Pletcher did bide his time in declaring Circular for the Preakness and he was a late entry. Obviously, if the horse is of \"traditional\" Pletcher Stakes Quality TAP misread Circular\'s readiness. In that regard, here we have Rags to Riches sitting upon the same Pletcher Training Acumen move. Pletchers Stakes read upon her was that she would be withheld but something changed his mind late as it did with Circular Way\'s Preakness. Interestingly Rags was also beating mediocre horses.
Contrary to what someone here posted, Pletchers Stakes results have not been stellar lately. Theres even some innuendo that he lost the services of his favorite race conditioner. (White Mercedes) If that is true your guess is as good as mine. Was W.M. suddenly a positive liability? With the pre race surprise screening must Pletcher mind his P\'s and Q\'s? He is after all the sole insurer of running a clean animal.
I\'m of the opinion Pletcher will not fair well on Belmont Day.
flushedstraight Wrote:
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> Mike,
> Any scoop on English Channel? Tempting to toss but
> seeing the way Honey Ryder bounced back from Dubai
> I\'m cautious. 33% TAP\'s got me scratching my head
> again.
>
> (BTW, still waiting for CQ to get back to his top)
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It\'s not uncommon for a rider to lose the mount after a loss.It\'s understood by
all.Gomer and Co.\'s actions are quite different.
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Miff, from a aesthetics perspective, I\'d just like to help and point out its unseemly to respond to ones own post.
If you remember to take your awareness pills, I promise to take my anti-integrity meds.
No, Garret Gomez does not give me that good feeling and that was before this latest stunt.
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> Chuck,
>
> I can tell you are off your meds again.You must
> know that Garret Gomez is one of the best riders
> of today, other issues aside.
>
> Incidentally, the things posted here re Gomez,
> Johnny V. are NOTHING compared to the moves that
> Jerry Bailey would make to try take away a mount
> from another jockey.
>
>
> Mike
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Chuckles mentioned that TAP\'s stakes results have not been stellar lately:
From TAP\'s TG trainer profile:
Last 90 days (340 starts) Win percentage 26%. TAP\'s TG Figure-Based break out
shows 108 starts with 36% of the runners in this sample posting a new top and
31% pairing.
Stakes races (1679 starts) Win percentage 23%. TG Figure- Based break out for
Stakes shows 1495 starts with only 13% of stakes runners posting a new top and
32% pairing.
Guess it would be interesting to see the figures for stakes races in the last
90 days. Always fascintaed looking at run based v figure based stats and seeing
trainers with high win %, but only average figure- based profile.
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I must be missing something, I been handicapping 35 yrs and I can\'t remember 2yr fillies beating 2yr colts at all. Automatic throwout everytime. That goes for RTR on Saturday
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TAP\'s figures in NY suggest he is on his game; maybe not the best he\'s had in the past, but running full nevertheless.
If he\'s ahead of the testing in NYC, Assmussen will likely be as well. This suggests that RTR and Curlin will run their eyeballs out in this race.
Personally Curlin strikes me as a runner with distance issues...not when you compare him to most of the others, but I don\'t think he will get 12 furlongs easily with or without TAP\'s magic. I also think he is sitting on a breakdown of some sort, but not necessarily in this race. I\'ll explain why when it happens; I don\'t expect to see him in a SS rematch.
Maybe there\'s another horse at Belmont who will go with these two, but the others don\'t come from scientifically superior barns and may end up struggling for minor placings. If one chose to breed to any of this crop, I\'d have to lean towards SS and HS as being the best of the clean 3 year olds we\'ve seen so far.
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Anyone know why Pino was fired? I just saw the replay and not sure what he did wrong...except get outrun late by 2 better animals.
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Pino moved about an eighth too soon and deserves jail more than Paris for that ride.If HS isn\'t spent from all the early wars he\'s been in, watch what a real jockey does with him.
Mike
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and how is mr.tom gonna get his moo juice in her? pre-race test and a post race test = no filly for me.
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he didnt move too soon. He never moved on that horse. The top 2 were cooked and came to a crawl, so it APPEARED like he \'moved\'. That horse is a free runner, he was letting that horse run at the speed he was comfortable with. i didnt see anything wrong with the ride. its not like he \'moved into\' curlin and SS, he sat there and 2 ridiculous horses went backwards which made the optical ill that he \'moved\'
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Miff,
Tell me why you are so high on Garrett Gomez. Like to hear your opinion.
NC Tony
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I\'m also not convinced taking Pino off was the wisest move and considering what they replaced him with its a negative, but here are the facts:
.23.53, 46.65, 1.09.80, 1.34.68
.23.53, 23.12, 23.15, 24.88
Hard Spun was running smooth and when C.P. West ranged up. Pino scrubbed on Hard Spun and he leapt to the front. Visually its all there, but the interior fractions tell the story. Clearly, a premature move and so hard to comprehend because it was Pino\'s backyard. Pressure does things to people. I don\'t think he\'d muck it up again though.
imallin Wrote:
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> he didnt move too soon. He never moved on that
> horse. The top 2 were cooked and came to a crawl,
> so it APPEARED like he \'moved\'. That horse is a
> free runner, he was letting that horse run at the
> speed he was comfortable with. i didnt see
> anything wrong with the ride. its not like he
> \'moved into\' curlin and SS, he sat there and 2
> ridiculous horses went backwards which made the
> optical ill that he \'moved\'
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Glad to see other \"brownies\" look at re-plays too.
Pino has lived at Pimlico for decades and DID NOT move too early.
Letting the reins out a little on the horse does not constitute an early move.
The fact that Spun refused to control his speed was evident when Pino tried to restrain him from accelerating to an all-out drive.
If Spun is a one run animal ,then Pino is solely responsible.
He\'ll be a great miler if only a single move horse and maybe the most improved distance horse if he can learn to control his great athleticism.
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Imallin,
What were you looking at, he moved into a 45 change half with two horse in front of him that had no chance.Worst big race ride in a long time.
Mike
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NC Tony,
Watch all his rides,can\'t remember too many jockeys finishing as strongly as he is right now.Of course he\'s getting all live mounts but after him, Prado and Johnny V the list of top jockeys gets a little thin,imo
Mike
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The timer doesnt mean anything. All that matters is how comfortable the horse is moving. That horse is of HIGH cruising speed. He was under a hold when he passed the 2 longshots who were totally done. Even the owner doesn\'t know....he said on an inteview \"he wanted hard spun \'tucked in\'.\"
TUCKED IN BEHIND WHO?
There was NO WAY that Pino cld have kept hard spun from passing the 2 leaders on the backstretch, hard spun can\'t go that slow.
if you want the horse to rate better, get a better trainer, a trainer who can train the horse who can relax.
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\"There was NO WAY that Pino cld have kept hard spun from passing the 2 leaders on the backstretch, hard spun can\'t go that slow\"
He was off a half in 50 today but he could not be held off 45+ last time, makes sense.
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miff Wrote:
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> \"There was NO WAY that Pino cld have kept hard
> spun from passing the 2 leaders on the
> backstretch, hard spun can\'t go that slow\"
>
>
>
> He was off a half in 50 today but he could not be
> held off 45+ last time, makes sense.
The efforts in the first two legs caught up with him. If he came out in good order he\'ll be fine after a break. Maybe TAP will get so confident he\'ll try Rags one more time vs the Colts. I hope he does.
Curlin certainly got the distance but i\'ll be shocked if the winning Tfig exceeds Zero. I\'m thinking about a 1, which is what Rags needed to upset.
And may Garrett Gomez never get a leg up on Rags again.
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Chuck,
Two problems, very slow pace and the only two turn race.Figs for races like this and the Bluegrass must be looked at a little differently.
Mike