Ask The Experts
General Category => Ask the Experts => Topic started by: Topcat on April 16, 2012, 02:00:29 PM
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That\'s the rumor out of California . . .
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True. Evidently partly a function of Len himself not being involved any more (he\'s 85). Which in turn explains why their NY and BC numbers have gone screwy-- he has just been doing NY and Fla for many years, but oversees the big days. I have to believe there\'s no way he would have gotten the BC Juvy fillies that obviously wrong.
Anyway, he\'s been threatening to retire for 30 years, good for him for finally doing it.
And for me...
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Who\'s buying?
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I heard a rumor it was a breeding/racing operation in Ky but no idea if it\'s true.
This thing evidently has been a done deal for a while, my guess (and it is one) is the reason they kept it quiet was they didn\'t want people to know Ragozin was out.
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LOL ... as Churchill Downs no longer uses \"horse racing\" as a business model, perhaps ... ?
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The real LOL (first time I ever used that term, but if ever it was called for) would be if the buyer made them move the operation down there. I say this as a NY (non-practicing) Jew-- moving that crew of NY, Jewish, and in some cases Communists down there would be the greatest reality show in history.
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The sale is a little old but what is supposed to be happening in the way of changes is fairly new.Rumor,it\'s a Pletcher owner.Tough buy as a business investment with a flood of decent cheaper products out there and little apparent upside.
From what I observe, RAGS seems to have a bit of \"niche\" with certain owners and trainers.
Mike
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Thanks. That makes sense. As one who works in a people-heavy business that pushes a product sold primarily on paper, I couldn\'t help but wonder as to the identity of this optimist. No offense intended. Something tells me the second shoe will drop in a year or so when the optimist calls you with an offer.
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When Ray Taulbot died, they kept posting his articles in American Turf for maybe 15 years as if they were new.
Ragozin could have kept it going a lot longer had he so desired. Doing numbers at 85, seems like a tall order.
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What does this mean for Len F?
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I heard he will continue to run the show, not confirmed.
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Now that made me laugh! Oh my gawd, that is so accurate ..
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Total radio silence on the Ragozin board.
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So its 1964 and Howard Cosell and Cassius Clay are stopped at a red light in
downtown Louisville. An attractive blonde woman crosses in front of their car and
Clay catches Cosell staring at her.
\"Cosell, you\'re crazy. You\'re Jewish. They\'ll kill you in this town for looking at
a white woman like that.\"
Weekend Recap: The dirty nose of Perfect Officer in the Shakertown at Keeneland
cost me what? 2K or 3K in the all stakes P4
Travel Note: Will be at Fairmount Park in southern Illinois Friday night,
revisiting the leaky roof track of my misspent youth. I am certain that the
horses will be slow, hoping that the beer will be cold.
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So the same people who for years thought SHEET Theory was Vodoo bought the thing....Interesting.
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richiebee Wrote:
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> So its 1964 and Howard Cosell and Cassius Clay are
> stopped at a red light in
> downtown Louisville. An attractive blonde woman
> crosses in front of their car and
> Clay catches Cosell staring at her.
>
> \"Cosell, you\'re crazy. You\'re Jewish. They\'ll kill
> you in this town for looking at
> a white woman like that.\"
>
> Weekend Recap: The dirty nose of Perfect Officer
> in the Shakertown at Keeneland
> cost me what? 2K or 3K in the all stakes P4
>
> Travel Note: Will be at Fairmount Park in southern
> Illinois Friday night,
> revisiting the leaky roof track of my misspent
> youth. I am certain that the
> horses will be slow, hoping that the beer will be
> cold.
Seriously, how could you leave that one out? I\'m not saying he was dominant, but he seemed like an obvious contender.
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Pretty sure the story is just a typo and that it meant to say \"Ragozin\'s old\" not Ragozin sold!
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Somebody asked them about it on their board-- and they deleted it.
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Business opportunity ... it\'s a wonderful thing :-)
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Was just on their board and another thread about this subject was posted. Curious to see if they respond. Mr. Brown your old buddy \"Cube\" doesn\'t seem to like how your doing the Arkansas Derby figure. He is quite the expert on figure making (tongue firmly in cheek).
Jeff
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They are saying on their board that Google turns up nothing, which proves that it must be a hoax.
If it\'s not on Google it doesn\'t exist.
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alm Wrote:
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> richiebee Wrote:
> Weekend Recap: The dirty nose of Perfect
> Officer
> > in the Shakertown at Keeneland
> > cost me what? 2K or 3K in the all stakes P4
> >
>
> Seriously, how could you leave that one out? I\'m
> not saying he was dominant, but he seemed like an
> obvious contender.
Yeah, Alm, a little blue about it, missed a $600+ payout on a $72 ticket (4/3/4/3)
@ $.50. Biggest mistake was not spreading more in a gimmick where I had no
affinity for the shortest favorite in the sequence (Hansen).
The Tony Dutrow trained runner had many positive angles. I had used him in the BC
Turf Sprint last November, etc, etc, etc.
Agree with a lot of the points you made in your thorough weekend Derby prep
recap. With the emergence of the \"now\" horses (Bode, Gem, Dullahan) how high do
the odds drift up on Union Rags?
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richiebee Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So its 1964 and Howard Cosell and Cassius Clay are
> stopped at a red light in
> downtown Louisville. An attractive blonde woman
> crosses in front of their car and
> Clay catches Cosell staring at her.
>
> \"Cosell, you\'re crazy. You\'re Jewish. They\'ll kill
> you in this town for looking at
> a white woman like that.\"
>
> Weekend Recap: The dirty nose of Perfect Officer
> in the Shakertown at Keeneland
> cost me what? 2K or 3K in the all stakes P4
>
> Travel Note: Will be at Fairmount Park in southern
> Illinois Friday night,
> revisiting the leaky roof track of my misspent
> youth. I am certain that the
> horses will be slow, hoping that the beer will be
> cold.
. .. site of my first sustained chartcalling stint at a thoroughbred track . . . starring Dave Gall, Ray Landing, Ev Hammond and Enoch Rea . . .
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Hey listen, we all make mistakes. This Sunday I bet exclusively horizontal on 15 races (Keeneland, SA) never using more than 4 horses in the sequence. I hit 13 winners, 2 cold supers, 3 tris, 3 exactas in separate races......and broke even for the day when the losers broke some potentially good p3s and 4s. Oh well.
Regarding Union Rags and his odds, I don\'t think there\'s any way he goes below 5-1...especially if TG doesn\'t put him high in the mix. He might be higher given the Baffert factor...a lot depends upon the perception people get about workouts.
Given Gem is working in Florida, as I think I read, he may be the underbet horse in the mix. He gets no push from what people will be seeing at Churchill and he had the apparently slow winning time in his prep.
I hope Dullahan takes some betting...he\'s the least impressive prep winner of all of them...not a great number...not visually impressive unless you like watching the optical illusion of a closer closing on a frontrunner stopping.
I hope the Arabs and Europeans get nutty on the O\'Brien horse. He\'s not in the mix from my point of view. He beat Lucky Chappy (name?)...wow. And he has to travel around the world?
Creative Cause? I really have to give this one more thought. He wiped out Bode, but that could be a timing thing. He appeared to me to be hanging against Drug O\'Neill\'s SA Derby winner. Maybe it was a slight regression? Not sure.
If I had to bet it today, I would look for the winner among UR, Gem and Alpha because I think they all will go forward. I would put some of the speed, TCI,Bode, Hansen and Drug\'s horse in the mix behind them. I don\'t think there are any big surprises looming.
But I don\'t have to bet it today.
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\"I heard a rumor it was a breeding/racing operation in Ky but no idea if it\'s true.\"
That rumor was true. See the Rags BB for the details.
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Here\'s the link, just minutes ago.
http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/68999/davison-haddad-purchase-ragozins-the-sheets
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I\'ll tell you what, that says something about the Blood-Horse. That\'s the exact thing I saw as a press release 15 minutes earlier-- presented here as a news story.
I have a feeling some other shoes are going to drop...
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Yep. Attributed to \"Blood Horse Staff\". I hear that\'s how Judy Miller got her start.
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I know how she got her finish...
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Magicnight wrote:
\"I hear that\'s how Judy Miller got her start.\"
I\'ll leave the \"LOL\" to JB and his ilk, but that\'s a hell of a line.
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Mike,
I moved from the Rags to thorograph for over 5 years now but agree that many owners and trainers have a \"reverence\" for the rag sheets. while I think thorograph is hands down the best product I suspect that ragozin has a larger trainer following.
Steve Davidson is financially capable of making rags much more competitive. It will be interesting to see how this develops
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A couple of people have said something like that. For years they had a lot more money to work with than me, it didn\'t help. Their figures have had major problems for a long time-- and that was with by far their best figure maker still there, doing NY, Fla, and the big races. Now they don\'t have him, and still apparently have the same people running the show.
That sound you hear is the Berlin Wall coming down.
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Without having to sign in to Rag board, what are the details of the sale???
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As of Monday April 16, The Sheets have been acquired by Steve Davison and Jake Haddad.
Steve is a long time Sheet user who owns and manages Twin Creeks Farm, the breeder of current Grade 1 winner To Honor and Serve, and is the majority owner of Twin Creeks Racing, which campaigns top class handicap horse Mission Impazible. Jake has been with Len Ragozin for over thirty years and will continue to manage the office.
Steve and Jake are very much committed to maintaining the high quality of work that produces the most accurate Sheet numbers possible. The staff and production of The Sheets will continue without change or interruption.
The current staff looks forward to working with Steve and Jake to continue the Ragozin tradition and hopefully expand the range of high quality products that we can offer to owners, trainers and horseplayers.
Len Friedman
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Thanks Rich.