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41
Ask the Experts / CAW free pools
« Last post by TGJB on November 17, 2025, 07:50:47 PM »
Meanwhile, there are some pools CAW is not allowed to or can’t fish in.

NYRA late P5
Coast to Coast P5
Cross Country P5
GP P5 starting race 5 on 11 race programs
Sunset P6

Also any P3s not on consecutive races (Turf P3 etc).
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Ask the Experts / Re: CAW Class Action Lawsuit Summarized -R.I.C.O Allegations
« Last post by Silver Charm on November 17, 2025, 06:48:40 PM »
Someone can buy a Seat in the Exchange. But it doesn\'t get them a Special Deal. If you know someone you can probably get in on an IPO but if the IPO was over priced the Stock would go down once it\'s Trading. Unlikely because people want it to be successful. So comparing that to Horse Racing did you get a Deal? Well you will know in about 10 minutes when the IPO hits the Market or the Race is run.

No one is buying a Deal. And there is a Regulatory Body called the Securities and Exchange Commission. Market manipulators are watched. Insiders are Tracked. There is no such thing or a similar regulatory body surrounding Racing.

A Company can not price their IPO lower for one group of buyers because they favor them versus another. It\'s Illegal as hell.
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Ask the Experts / Re: CAW Class Action Lawsuit Summarized -R.I.C.O Allegations
« Last post by Boscar Obarra on November 17, 2025, 06:40:46 PM »
First horse loading is a bit problematic for many players who like to bet late.  Video feeds are often delayed.  This would shut a lot of people out, and the tracks dont like that lost income.

 I\'ve seen feeds that appear to be near realtime, based in their screen clocks, but NYRA is always delayed by an absurd 20 seconds.  Why is that ?
44
Ask the Experts / Re: CAW Class Action Lawsuit Summarized -R.I.C.O Allegations
« Last post by Fairmount1 on November 17, 2025, 06:34:02 PM »
Silver,

One of the Defendants in the lawsuit is \"Racing & Gaming Services,\" a CAW registered in St. Kitts and Nevis.  A quick review of the tax benefits of St. Kitts will reveal that actually these folks likely do not even have to report their handle, much less pay taxes.  

Meanwhile, Stronach Group of course is owned by Canadian Belinda Stronach.

As American as Apple Pie this horse racing game!  

As for the idea that the stock market folks are a fair comparison, one question for you Silver, if you don\'t mind.  Do the folks with the \"structural advantages\" Boscar describes also have the ability to put their money down on specific stocks based on prices 30 seconds earlier?  I\'m gonna guess \"No.\"

_______________

Solutions:

1. Destroy them in court.  Fingers crossed.  I hope everyone involved with the CAWs and their partners\' brilliant schemes go down in flames.

2.  Legislate the CAW\'s out of the game in the states that actually care about the future of the game beyond a few years.

3.  At the track level, ban them altogether from your pools while catering to the valuable on track dollars from customers and Retail Players.

4.  Create a federal oversight body for the billions in money involved in the horse racing industry.  Yes, I ABSOLUTELY trust the federal govt over the Stronach Group and CDI and their CAW partners and tote partners.  That\'s a scary proposition as some would say HISA has taught us.  But, again, you can\'t trust anyone involved with the CAW folks.

5.  A criminal investigation by the FBI (Eastern District of NY) into these folks and let\'s see what we learn.
________________________________

NOTE:  Mike Maloney posted (paraphrasing here) on twitter/X this weekend that circa 2009, the Integrity Committee in Kentucky voted to close the pools when the 1st horse loads with unanimous support.  It then had a majority of support from the Commission [Racing I presume he means].  On the day of the vote though it was shut down by Churchill and the head of the [Racing?] Commission Beck was then suddenly against closing the pools when the first horse loads.  

CD and all these tracks/CAW\'s/Tote Companies/Track Execs have been laughing to the bank for the past 16 years at least as they all exploit whatever weaknesses they can find in the parimutuel pools, the tote system, and at the expense of All Retail Bettors.  

Now ask yourself, why is it is SO important to not close the pools when the first horse loads that CD had to jump on the scene to save the day back in 2009?  

I\'m sure the most altruistic reasons one can surmise are what a few folks here will tell me.
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Ask the Experts / Re: CAW Class Action Lawsuit Summarized -R.I.C.O Allegations
« Last post by Boscar Obarra on November 17, 2025, 05:28:29 PM »
Silver Charm Wrote:
-----------------------
> Terrible example....


No, the example was fine.    In particular, I highlighted structural advantages offered to those willing to pay for it, in the stock market . I didn\'t say anything about discounts.
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Ask the Experts / Re: CAW Class Action Lawsuit Summarized -R.I.C.O Allegations
« Last post by Silver Charm on November 17, 2025, 05:20:45 PM »
Also if the Participants in the stock market are attempting to manipulate a particular security the SEC can fine and bar them. Or even Jail them

Anyone owns more than 5% of an individual security must file a Schedule 13(d) with the Exchange. Disclosure. Same potential penalty. Fined. Barred. Jailed. Who reports how much one group of Parties control in the wagering pools.

Also Insiders who have Conflicts of Interest are required to Report their individual stock purchases. If not totally barred from doing so. And sometimes they are required to do so. Skin in the game of the Company. But they are required to report it.

Nobody in Pari Mutual Wagering is required to do anything other than Report the handle and pay their taxes.
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Ask the Experts / Re: CAW Class Action Lawsuit Summarized -R.I.C.O Allegations
« Last post by Roman on November 17, 2025, 05:18:17 PM »
You bring up an excellent point. If someone enters a pari-mutuel pool voluntarily, what is the harm done to that person? Lower odds? It\'s pari-mutuel wagering, the odds change.

And even if you bet into a CAW tainted pool, are you only harmed if you won the wager and the payout was reduced by the CAW activity?

I understand the frustration with CAW\'s, and the need for change, but really, what are the chances this gets to the discovery phase?

Is every participant in the class going to have to provide there betting history? Who is going to go through all that data & see what wagers where affected by CAW play?
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Ask the Experts / Re: CAW Class Action Lawsuit Summarized -R.I.C.O Allegations
« Last post by Silver Charm on November 17, 2025, 05:05:07 PM »
Terrible example. Sorry. If I buy a $100 Stock I don\'t get $2 off for a volume discount. It is not a Free Market Pool for all participants if that is the case.

When I place a wager I am not buying someone else\'s Pari Mutual ticket like with Stocks. If I wager on a 10-1 Shot I don\'t get 10-1 guaranteed. I get nothing if my wager loses. And at the current rate in racing you get might a little more than nothing if your supposed 10-1 shot wins. Because another market participant pounded that down to 9-5 after the gate opened.

There is a also a Regulator called the Securities and Exchange Commission. Who regulates horse racing wagering pools? Mic Drop.....
49
Ask the Experts / Re: CAW Class Action Lawsuit Summarized -R.I.C.O Allegations
« Last post by Boscar Obarra on November 17, 2025, 04:50:16 PM »
Stock Markets,  a trillion dollar operation, have routinely given advantages to participants willing to pay for it .

 I don\'t see any real change there , though there has been pushback for a decade or more . (see HFT )

 The only way you\'re gonna get the law to intervene here is if there is some kind of fraud, or you can prove they are violating existing statutes.
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Ask the Experts / Re: CAW Class Action Lawsuit Summarized -R.I.C.O Allegations
« Last post by Fairmount1 on November 17, 2025, 04:03:41 PM »
I understand that.  But what about my negligence claim?  Why is that one a fail for you, if it is?
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