No Comments on this?

\"It\'s funny, you hear all these stories about he\'s doing this, he\'s doing that,\" said Reid, referring to accusations that Dutrow cheats. \"You go in the barn, his horses look better than anybody\'s, they\'re standing on deeper bedding than anybody, they\'re getting better feed than anybody - he\'s second to none in care. He\'s a phenomenal natural horseman.\"

Asked if what Dutrow did Saturday makes him worthy of consideration for an Eclipse Award, Reid said: \"With two horses that weren\'t doing a whole lot before he got them, to win two Breeders\' Cup races with them, I think it\'s one of the standout performances recently.\"

[jbelfior]

Based on what Reid said, Oscar Barrera should be in the Hall of Fame for narrowly beating Horse of the Year SLEW OF GOLD with a 35K claimer named SHIFTY SHEIK.

By the way, did anyone ask Reid about Mr. Dutrow\'s recent 60 day suspension for being a \"phenomenal natural horseman.\"



Good Luck,
Joe B.

[Bull]

Well based on what Reid said, I will be eagerly awaiting a heated Eclipse Award race involving Dutrow, Cole Norman and Wayne Catalano. I mean think about it, these guys have obviously figured out how to cheat on the track, it will be great fun to see how they try to fix the balloting. I can picture it in my head....


Two days before the balloting, Cole Norman had only 10% of the first place votes, but then, on the day of the announcements, Steve Allday introduced himself to Norman, and the two were found chatting near the envelope table. Magically Norman had 80% of the first place votes come banquet time. Talk about a move up trainer!!!! Reid decided to comment on the potential scandal saying \"I looked at Cole Norman\'s ballots and they were sitting on the finest table cloth, and the check marks were made with the most vibrant ink around.\"

[Silver Charm]

I said before the Cup that I had BET OUT on the Allday Over figure of 2.5 races won.

Call me if you need a loan.

[dutrowfan]

I don\'t mean to sound naiive about this topic because I certainly am not.  But has it occurred to anyone that there are cutting edge, very legal, techiques employed by Allday that are as much responsible for the success that those using him as a vet have?  The guy may be accused of administering high test stuff but hes also the most brilliant vet alive according to many owners and trainers that I know.  Hes very expensive and as a result only top money barns can afford to use him but then again this is a capitalist country is it not?  Simply \"juicing\" horses will not bring you success at the highets level.  I could rattle off the names of a lot of guys who have been affected by the detention barn in NY who the press and duped public always referred to as \"classic horseman, geniuses, blah blah blah\".    Its well known that Pletcher, Dutrow, Frankel, Romans, etc all use Allday but you have to ask yourself if its as simple as just using the right vet or if there must be a certain level of skill required to win races at the highest level.  All of those guys I just mentioned not only use Allday but manage their horses with sheets of some kind and use \"time management\" in spotting and running their top horses as well as the best exercise riders and jockeys.  I\'m not an idiot with his head in the sand regarding illegal medication, I feel its been rampant especially in recent years and was destroying the game both from a betting standpoint and a business standpoint for owners.  However, I feel that the supertesting on big race days and detention barns have done a hell of a lot to level the field and my feeling is(as far as NY racing goes) that if they all go to the detention barn(no more milkshakes on race day boys) and all take the same tests then its a lot more level than it was.  The new theory seems to be that if someone is highly successful then they must be juicing.  Quite frankly some of these guys are just damn good.  They are using the best blacksmiths, exercise riders, massage or chirocpractic work, legal vet work, and spotting and managing time off between races with sheets.  IN Dutrwo\'s case I don\'t see these miracles that som many speak of.  When I used to see guys I was convinced that were \"juicing\" they would claim a horse and then run him back in a week and move him up 15 lengths.   In Dutrow\'s case this is rarely if ever true.  He got Silver Train the first week of April and didnt run him for 6 weeks where he promptly lost(albeit a bad trip), he got St Liam in early September of 2003 and didnt run him for almost three months.  When he got Offlee Wild in mid-march of 2004 he didnt run him for almost 2-3 months.  These were all horses who had shown high ability and talent and then gone sour.  What does he have to do to get any respect?  Does he have to only win at 15% to be respected?

[miff]

Dutrowfan,


How do you explain when Dutrow got the 60day ban recently, and John Rodriguez took over, that the horses performed AS WELL.I guess John Rodriguez is also \"damn good\" as you said.

The two horses you mentioned,Silver Train and St Liam are poster boy cases for abnormal elevated performance. Just look at the TG sheets pre and post Dutrow. You will find these giant move up\'s with MANY other Dutrow acquisitions.No one but God or Oscar could do that time after time.Dutrow\'s horses may not win by 15 lengths but they do perform explosively too often to be believed.

Your comments that the \"expensive vet, time between, overall management\", etc is nonsense. I guess you never heard of Mott, Mc Gaughey,A. Jerkens, Lukas, Baffert and many others with \"big money\" clients that can afford all of the above, plus, and still do not come close to  Dutrow\'s overall success. How come??


He ain\'t been caught so I guess you may be right,but I don\'t think so and I know many trainers and owners in New York who don\'t think so either.

[dutrowfan]

Miff,
I will answer the Silver Train comment with GEORGE MIKHAILADES!!!!!!  You don\'t think that horse(who ran explosively on Travers Day 2004 albeit with the bias) was a prime candiate for improval?
With St. Liam I will point out another horsed named Sand Springs trained by Reinstedler.  Another horse who looked like graded stakes material early on in her career and performed well.  When she went to Mott she exploded into a grade one horse.  Couldn\'t Reinstedler(who consistently underperforms with very well bred horses at a woeful percentageA) just be a guy who could be improved upon greatly?
As far as Rodriguez goes I think you strengthen my point, not shoot it down.  Dutrow, like many other great trainers, is a \"system\" trainer.  His system and methodology obviously was well followed by Rodriguez.  Its not like Juan had to develop horses from scratch.  They had already been honed into condition and all he had to do was follow the program, his brother Rudy is the asst anyway and I\'m sure that his input was the driving force in the barn during the suspension.
One point about the stats that you don\'t touch on.  Guys like Mott and Shug never play the claiming game, they only drop down into claiming ranks on busts.  If you toof Dutrow\'s percentage with maidens, stakes, and allowance races I would hazard a guess that his percentage would be significantly lower.  The claiming game is something that he and his owners play very well, spotting horses and claiming horses off sheets.  I believe that this adds to his percentage greatly.