The Pletcher Empire-R.I.P.

[TGJB]

Tony-- What do you base that on? Do you know what they test for, and don\'t? And again-- the problem with the TCO2 tests is the level necessary for a positive.

Michael-- I would have bet TW whether Plecther trained him or not. But there was a significant amount of information out there this weekend, of which that result was part. Have you seen many Pletcher 3yos get beat 30 lengths? Have you seen many bounce a great deal (more than 3-4 points)? Have you seen Frankel horses (Ginger Punch and Country Star) that fit well on figures run X\'s?

We\'ll have to see what happens. What I can tell you from first hand experience (direct contact) is that some individuals and institutions that were previously oblivious started taking the \"move-up\" issue seriously in the last 6 months. Don\'t know whether that\'s the cause or not yet-- too soon to tell. But this is something to watch.

[Michael D.]

fair enough .....

but Country Star did not \'X\'. she ran 65 feet longer than the winner - likely a new top.

[miff]

\"but Country Star did not \'X\'. she ran 65 feet longer than the winner - likely a new top\"

Mike D,

... likely a new top? She was wide both turns but could not have been more empty, her worst performance in a short career. Ground will save her fig but she was awful,no?

Mike

[Silver Charm]

Flach,

The trends for Pletcher are going in the wrong direction. There are no Lawyer Rons, Harlans Holidays being taken from other good trainers and given to him. His move ups were extremelly explosive but short lived with those horses anyway.

Core syndication groups like Peachtree and Dogwood are using more and more \"other trainers\".

Almost no seven figure sales yearlings this year from Tabor and Co.

I would be curious if someone could tell me how money inner tube starters he has had this year as compared to the last three or four years. If the number is way up then it will tells you all you need to know.

When he sells the Hallandale Condo then nothing more need be said.

[Michael D.]

miff Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mike D,
>
> ... likely a new top? She was wide both turns but
> could not have been more empty, her worst
> performance in a short career. Ground will save
> her fig but she was awful,no?
>
> Mike


hi Mike,

I don\'t see it that way.

I am going to make the performance as good as the figure. she was evenly paced in a :06.2 final 1/16.

certainly not a great race, but I wouldn\'t call it awful.

she\'s up against some good fillies this year though. should be a great Oaks.

[miff]

hi Mike,

I don\'t see it that way.

I am going to make the performance as good as the figure. she was evenly paced in a :06.2 final 1/16.

certainly not a great race, but I wouldn\'t call it awful.

she\'s up against some good fillies this year though. should be a great Oaks.


hi mike,

I understand your read but I toss all horses \"saved\" by ground who show no run especially if they get a good fig. Empty is empty, ground is only relevant somEtimes, imo.With Country Star and Proud Spell bombing in their last preps,Eight Bells seems the one at this moment but a very good race if they all enter and run well. Good luck

Mike

[jma11473]

TGJB, I know you are busy, but if you have a chance to respond...do you expect the new rules on steroids to cut back on the number of move-ups (and move-up trainers) at Delaware this meet (and in other mid-Atlantic states)? Or, do you think the cause of the move-ups lies elsewhere and things will continue as they are?

[TGJB]

I don\'t know the answer to that, and it will be interesting to see what happens. But one problem is that we won\'t know what else is going on behind the scenes-- tracks would much rather warn guys to stop using something than catch them and have a scandal, so even if the move-up guys slow down it might not be steroids.

[Silver Charm]

How does this apply to Kentucky? From what I understand the legislature is proposing cutting the Racing Commissions Budget which will seriously undermine the Commissions ability to regulate.

Venues such as Turfway and Ellis would have no regulation at all. Having looked at several Kentucky based Sheets over the couple of weeks, with the opening of Keeneland and the big Lanes End Day at Turfway, only a fool would believe that things are not already going on there.

Cheap horses are running aberrant Tops all over the place. If this is the case then only a fool would be willing to bet into these venues with limited or no regulation.

[cubfan0316]

stop it. hes got plenty of money behind him, thats whats keeping him in the game. without drugs and cash hes a average trainer, at best.

[jma11473]

I agree, it\'s pretty complicated---lots of layers to the situation. It will be interesting to see what happens. Thanks for your reply---I appreciate you taking the time during Derby season.

[Silver Charm]

From a Mary Jean Wall column in today\'s Lexington Herald Leader,

The suit was dark. But not so dark it was a funeral suit, as events turned out.

\"They had us buried, but we\'re not dead yet,\" Pletcher remarked, in a rare joking mood.

[Rick B.]

All of the grave-dancing in this thread re: Pletcher is going to turn into heart attacks and apoplectic seizures if Toddster managers to get 2 of his runners to hit the board in the Derby.

(Add Dutrow\'s Big horse to the top three, and watch the forum melt down completely! Oy, the angst!)

[smalltimer]

TGJB,
I just happened to grab this comment.  I think its a great point.
Those guys you mentioned are among many who have been flying under the radar in the last year or so.
I have great respect for Dutrow, but after several suspensions, when is enough, enough?  
I told a friend recently that I hope the Derby isn\'t found to be anything fishy.
The sport gets enough bad ink.