We have been warned

[sighthound]

Whether or not disgruntled bettors are correct or incorrect in their logic that they\'re losing because of the cheating and not losing because they are not good enough gamblers, the fact still remains that we all want clean racing.

My entire point is that there is something else beyond the either/or of  \"losing because of cheating\" or \"losing because they are not good enough gamblers\" - it\'s \"losing because they don\'t know and understand how horses and training work\".

Every time I see a gambler laugh off \"dapples\", or a training/husbandry change, and discount them, I just figure that gambler has put himself in a far worse position to win.

You can gamble using only figures - and TGJB makes the best, obviously - but you\'ll not win as much as those that also can put an eye on a horse, literally see if he\'s ready to run his race today, or weigh and interpret the little information you get Derby week correctly.

And yes, we all want clean racing.

[plasticman]

I see your points and i know that personally, i try to think as much like a horseman as i can in my own handicapping. I think the difference between you and the people who are screaming to get rid of the cheats is that the people who want rid of the cheats are willing to toss innocent trainers and vets under the bus while they\'re in the process of cleaning house...while you are not.

Anyone who\'s been a handicapper for a long time, as most of us have, know that sometimes a form reversal will just be something simple and honest like dental work or foot work or ulcer treatment, etc. We do realize that not every horse who runs off and hides and shows massive, overnight improvement was done thru cheating.

But, horseplayers don\'t really care whether or not a massive form reversal was done honestly or not, all they know is that it COULD be an undetectable drug. They dont know, as handicappers, what happened. The trainer and some insiders know, but the bettors don\'t know....the bettors are guessing.

This is why many will yell and scream \"CHEAT!\" when they see massive form reversals because to them, its all one in the same, because they can\'t ever know for sure WHY the horse moved up 20 lengths overnight. This is why people scream \"CHEAT\" and want sweeping changes in the game.

You have access to stuff that the average bettor doesnt have and that\'s why you can see the forest for the trees...to you, its obvious that a horse who moved up 20 lengths had a toothache that the previous trainer didnt see...but to the person who\'s betting these races from the outside, there\'s no way he can know that.

[PonyBologna]

To make your example a little more appropriate, it\'s like a high school kid swimming times that are the best in his district, then changing coaches and immediately beginning to compete with Michael Phelps.

If we\'re way off base with how much cheating we think is going on vs what\'s actually going on then I don\'t believe the blame for that should be placed on our shoulders. Horse trainers are believed to be as crooked as boxing promoters, stereotypes don\'t appear out of thin air. I will admit that they do get overblown but it\'s the job of the trainers/industry to combat that perception, not blame and accost those with that opinion.

While we\'re on the word \"cheating\". In my opinion the betting public should be made more aware of what has been done to the horses before a ract. Bettors are the reason the NFL mandates an injury report each week. If we want the sport to survive we have to keep it an attractive betting sport.

[sighthound]

As long as US racing is so dependent upon claiming races, we\'ll never get the transparency we want and need.

I want, when a favorite figures out of the money (didn\'t run a lick) for the stewards to announce, by the end of racing that day, what the trainer had to say to them about it (bled, threw a shoe, jock said just didn\'t fire, etc) and obviously the horse is tested.

I want all medical treatments of certain types to be freely discussed - but our system of racing, buying and selling rewards secrecy, not openness.

[sighthound]

We have to change the openness of the sport.

[PonyBologna]

The first story I\'ve seen about the Kentucky Derby in the \"mainstream\" sports media. Is it about an undefeated Verrazano? Nope. Maybe it\'s about Winstar, Borel & Pletcher together again? Nah. Could it be about doping and the cloud of cheating that hangs over the sport? Ding ding ding

Yahoo Sports

[Tom Sawyer]

I don\'t need to know you to know that you don\'t know everything that you claim to know.

[Tom Sawyer]

Your analogy would carry more weight if the Olympic sports weren\'t such a cesspool of PED\'s.

Think Usain Bolt is setting world records with pure talent? Ask Angel Hernandez about that.