what day will you have the pre entries out...

[covelj70]

Well, so much for my hope that we could bring the discussion back around to talking about horses.

JB, I have been very vocal about highlighting your work on cleaning up the game both publicly with the press and privately with people on the racetrack and you are certainly to be commended for those efforts.

Its your choice to use this board for a forum to talk about drugs vs. handicapping, after all, it is your board.

That said, I know alot of us would love to get back to talking about handicapping races and i somehow managed to have a very good year handicapping (with alot of my picks posted on this site earlier in the year) and I don\'t think for 2 minutes before I make a bet about drugs so the notion that this is something we have to spend alot of time talking about in order to make money gambling is silly.

I want the drugs out as well but mixing the drug conversation with the handicapping conversations is a silly side show.

[covelj70]

Phenomenal post and an awesome idea about creating separate threads to talk about separate topics.

To make JB happy, we can dedicate one thread to the topic of \"I would have cleaned up at the track yesterday if all of the horses who I missed weren\'t juiced up\"


Lol

My filly in the breeders cup is Testa Rossi. She won the Miss Grillo at Belmont and ran a huge figure in the process. She\'s a perfect discussion point for a \"bounce\" thread.

[P-Dub]

covelj70 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Phenomenal post and an awesome idea about creating
> separate threads to talk about separate topics.
>
> To make JB happy, we can dedicate one thread to
> the topic of \"I would have cleaned up at the track
> yesterday if all of the horses who I missed
> weren\'t juiced up\"
>
>
> Lol
>
> My filly in the breeders cup is Testa Rossi. She
> won the Miss Grillo at Belmont and ran a huge
> figure in the process. She\'s a perfect discussion
> point for a \"bounce\" thread.

First, we have to know this.

When are you shipping her??

I too am tired of the conspiracy talk and drugs, but JB has every right to question the shipping patterns of certain trainers. The testing and surveillance is different than most days, and the results of some trainers were conspicuous last year. Coincidence??  Maybe, maybe not. It is at least worthy of discussion. (This paragraph was NOT intended to suggest in any way Jim\'s stable does funny stuff.)

[covelj70]

Thanks P-Dub,

Chad is shipping out on Monday. He has followed the same pattern every year the BC has been at Santa Anita and he has had phenomenal success out there going back to Maram in the first juv fillies turf race with lexcano up (yes I am trying to channel that image for next Friday)

He said right after the Miss Gillo that was the plan because it has always worked so well. He always does all the breezes at Belmont, then ships out day after the final breezes.

[Wrongly]

Jim

How long was your filly in the states before running in Miss Grillo?  She was getting first time lasix in the Miss Grillo right?  

Don\'t know what the stats are with those making their 2nd start off the plane but I would be leaning towards a bounce before seeing the numbers.  She did earn a 87 Racing Post figure for her prior race and Beyer assigned an 88 for the Miss Grillo, so it might not be a big jump forward.  Maybe you have seen JB\'s numbers and it is a big move forward in his numbers.  I would be more negative if the latter were the case.

Jim best of luck as always!  T.

[covelj70]

Thanks Tom


She jumped up very big on all speed figures. She was in the U.S. since the middle of August.

This is good example (I hope) of what I mean by not looking just at the numbers to call for a bounce. The issue will be clouded by the no lasix for any of them in the bc again.  

Shes doing very well coming into the race and she will have only run one race since mid July coming into the bc so that\'s not what I typically think about as a bounce candidate

Let me say it this way, I am much much more concerned with traffic trouble in a 14 horse field with tight turns than I am about her not running back to her last race given what I know of the situation.

[SoCalMan2]

covelj70 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks Tom
>
>
> She jumped up very big on all speed figures. She
> was in the U.S. since the middle of August.
>
> This is good example (I hope) of what I mean by
> not looking just at the numbers to call for a
> bounce. The issue will be clouded by the no lasix
> for any of them in the bc again.  
>
> Shes doing very well coming into the race and she
> will have only run one race since mid July coming
> into the bc so that\'s not what I typically think
> about as a bounce candidate
>
> Let me say it this way, I am much much more
> concerned with traffic trouble in a 14 horse field
> with tight turns than I am about her not running
> back to her last race given what I know of the
> situation.


If it wont upset the proprietor of the site, can you say what her career numbers are?  If she has not yet bounced, then I would not say she is a bounce candidate at all (although the lasix off really complicates the analysis).  I cannot say how important it is to not bounce a horse until it first gives you a bounce....horses at the start of the career are really just learning and figuring things out....and young horses really do go through a lot of physical development....if a horse has not yet bounced, then it really hasnt yet found its reaction point and it is very scary to just assume now is the time without more information.  However, having said that, if i were to come across the next Ruffian and she ran a negative number as a 2yo filly, I would have to say that such a figure is so super-equine it must extract a toll.......however, it is exceptionally rare to run into super-equine figures.

[Bet Twice]

>
> In terms of the shipping stuff, the conspiracy
> theory nonsense has reached such dizzying heights
> on this board that I don\'t read/post as much as I
> used to
>
> It\'s absolutely normal to ship right on top of a
> race. You either do what Romans did and ship far
> in advance to allow them to get acclimated or you
> ship right on top of the race. Chad Brown has done
> same (ie ship monday) every year the breeders cup
> has been in California and his horses have run
> great in the bc.
>
> It would be awesome if at some point we could get
> back to talking about handicapping horse races on
> this board and not have 3 out of every 4 posts be
> a conspiracy theory about cheating.

Amen!