Pletcher Views on Steroids

[miff]

Rose,

I don\'t buy into conspiracy theories, White Mercedes nonsense.Are there rogue vets, I would guess yes but have no first hand knowledge. I know enough about it that you don\'t need a vet to administer illegal/undetecable designer stuff or shakes. The crooked chemists also provide \"how to\"instructions.

Mike

[smalltimer]

Primarily, I play the cheats, cause that\'s where the money\'s at.
I probably play more cheats at more tracks than anyone anywhere.
If a trainer is an incredible \"talent\" at River Downs, or Saratoga, it makes no difference to me.  The best ones always overmatch the cripples in the field.
The jump up guys are just like third base coaches.  They give all the signs, all the signs, but it doesn\'t mean nothing until they give the indicator. Eventually they show their hand when they win.  
People think only horses are distance specialists.  Same holds true for trainers.
They win with the in-between distances because they train for that specific, odd distance.

[dlf]

Mike,
I usually agree with your posts, but how can you say, \"The ones [steroids] that help these animals recover and eat should be left alone. What\'s wrong with that?\"

I\'ll tell you what\'s wrong with that: By allowing these animals to race on steroids, you are enabling infirm/unsound horses to perform well, possibly at the expense of some horses who would beat the medicated ones if they all had to run only on hay, oats + water. And what happens to the horses who perform well? They go to the breeding shed.

[fkach]

>Miff--there is no problem IF THAT\'S ALL THEY DO. If they do other things, the game becomes (or rather has become) a chemistry contest.<

You brought back a memory of a lost friend. My friend Gene was one of the best pool players that ever lived. He used to always joke that the major tournaments weren\'t about playing great pool, they were about \"chemical warfare\".

[miff]

Dlf,

I will only say that steroids have little to do with helping infirm or unsound horses race. Epo, shakes, super designer pain meds and a host of other things, yes, steroids no.

As far as the breeding shed stuff thats another story that everyone is now reading about and running with.It\'s all very old news that has been around for a very long time which is now being looked into by the same disingenuous people in the racing hierarchy who knowingly permitted it all along.

Mike

[Silver Charm]

Look when the guy who only a year or so ago was Public Enemy #1 and is now maybe becoming Public Advocate #1 then maybe some things get done

And maybe we have reached the Top.............

[bobphilo]

Didn\'t he have another positive? But anyway, during his appeal the court also found that the mepivicaine (a drug whose only purpose is as a nerve blocker) could not have gotten into the horse by any means other than by injection.

You\'ll recall Pletcher\'s absurd argument that the horse must have \"inhaled\" the substance from another horse in the stable. Lost all respect for the man after that.

Bob

[bobphilo]

Right Jerry. This the point in the Pletcher positive. Even if the horse has a level which is now below the limit, it still had a substance which does not belong in a horse on race day. The fact that the level was too low was probably because they just got the dosage wrong when injecting. The intent was clearly to improve performance.

They got it right in Hong Kong with their zero tolerance policy. A horse should not have any amount of a performance enhancing substance which, as the court found, could only have gotten into the horse from an external source.

Bob

[Chuckles_the_Clown2]

I thought Dutrow\'s comment that he has been administering Winstrol since a vet recommended it a few years back spoke volumes.

I thought Plech\'s figure jump with Lawyer Ron Spoke volumes.

I thought Plech\'s refusal to comment in regard to steroid use with Monba and Cowboy Cal spoke volumes.

What do/did Plech, Dutrow and Frankel have in common?...Same vet, same time frame.

I thought Larry Jones insisting his champion filly be tested for Steroids and coming back clean spoke volumes.

I think there are other trainers out there that don\'t administer drugs to horses to improve performance, regardless of whether those drugs are \"currently\" legal or not. I think those trainers are the trainers you want to train your horse. I think those trainers are the ones you want to bet upon. I think the trainers doing it without drugs are real horsemen. I think Todd Plecher is a disgrace and I think his apologists are enablers.

It still takes a special horse to win the Derby. But it takes a real piece of shit to pretend he\'s doing it with attention to detail.


miff Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi Sight,
>
> You will never convince the conspiracy theorists
> or the Kool Aid drinkers,I\'ve tried re TAP.He ran
> a $3.2 Million filly yesterday,a NW1x in NY that
> got swallowed up by 7 lengths in the stretch in
> spite of the steroids and all the other illegal
> stuff he allegedly uses.
>
> You better contact him, I think he could use some
> held from a professional vet and knowledgeable
> horse person.
>
>
> Regards,
> Mike

[miff]

Chuck,

Lay off the Kool Aid, you are talking about a trainer and subject matter you have no clue about.


Mike

[cubfan0316]

these people sure think they need an edge. why dont they go steriod up all the jai-alai players and corner the market? out of they limelight and nobody could give a rats ass. if i ever saw this clown in person id have to kick his ...^$%#%$$%&%^#

[sighthound]

>> But anyway, during his appeal the court also found that the mepivicaine (a >>drug whose only purpose is as a nerve blocker) could not have gotten into the >>>horse by any means other than by injection.

I don\'t recall that from the appeal.  The appeal was based more upon the interpretation of the trainer responsibility rule, I believe.

>> You\'ll recall Pletcher\'s absurd argument that the horse must have \"inhaled\" >> the substance from another horse in the stable. Lost all respect for the man >> fter that.

I don\'t recall that specific explaination, either (only that he said the horse was not injected, and his various vets records backed it up)
 
Steve Assmussen was cited in Louisiana for a mepivacaine positive of 1200 nanograms/milliliter of urine.  

Louisiana allows 20ng/ml on race day (that presumes the drug isn\'t given for about a week before racing)

Jeff Mullins was cited in California for a mepivacaine positive of 30 ng/ml.

California allows 20 ng/ml on race day.

Pletcher was cited for a positive of 1.6 ng/ml.  At the time zero allowed positive.

I\'m not worried too much about Pletcher.

You do realize that grooms doing cocaine can readily give a trainer\'s horse a positive from residual transfer off their own hands, just while grooming and working around the horse?  

That if we tested the money in your wallet, chances are high we\'ll find cocaine traces on a bill?

All the \"-caines\" have good oral absorpsion ... if I had a few dried drops on my hand post-nerve block, then put my hand into a horses mouth to check it\'s teeth, gum color, hydration, or maybe gave it it\'s lasix shot race day, etc  I sure would worry about transferring.

Not defending Pletcher (who appealed, lost, and did his days) - just trying to put some perspective on the reality that injection isn\'t the only way to get a trace amount positive.  It\'s not all black and white.

I find it strange that Pletcher, with his fairly pristine record, is the constant target.