Lani FWIW

[touchgold]

AND how you read them.. to me thats most important

[ajkreider]

This is a lot of hay made over a 2-1 shot.

[touchgold]

2-1? the winner was 7/2 and the ex was 80.00....kid cruz was 8/5 maybe?

[ajkreider]

Was talking about Frosted.

[touchgold]

ahh...yeah..that race hurt

[johnnym]

Other than Frosted every dirt winner up to the Belmont ran there last race at either Belmont or Churchill

[TGJB]

Touch-- you pulled the same crap after Preakness day. I don\'t have Jakes Belmont day stuff, so I\'m at something of a disadvantage, but I\'ll have a couple of things to say when I get in the office tomorrow.

Patrick Morgan, why don\'t you check in. You apparently read here. You posted a couple of serious sounding things across the street that bear discussion, and I would like to do that tomorrow.

[jerry]

Jim\'s reference to \"all data\" started all this and I thought he was referring to Rags as well. I\'m still not sure what he was referring to. Maybe he can clarify but assuming he meant Rags is not a stretch.

[touchgold]

what crap? tell me more.....if you recall we discussed privately a particular SA race...tg had the first and third finishers 3-5 points slower than everyone else...where sheets had them the 2 fastest....you justified it, by saying it was a predictable jump up..in fact a certain user of tg used the winner...yet tg analysis didnt even sniff the race....ill be more than happy to also send you  my plays today...PRIOR to post..in fact sent them to friends friday....all I was doing here was correcting a post...in that not EVERYONE had kid cruz super fast....THATS ALL...NOTHING ELSE... did I have a great day? NO...did i hit the exacta in 4th YES....

[touchgold]

thanks jerry....im not bashing anything....i like tg..love the sire data..the numbers etc...just pointing out the foolishness of bashing sheets...and how bad they are at making numbers......its comical....but i get im up against a serious bias here....but in all honesty, ive seen some weird numbers here...the SA race i talked to TGJB about being one...i say to tgjb post that race prior to it being run

[FrankD.]

Over 20 posts on this string about who said this or that total BULLSHIT.

That\'s more posts than the entire day about handicapping or posting an opinion before a race on a major day.

[jimbo66]

Jerry,

I referenced \"all data\", perhaps should have used \"credible data\", which would mean Beyer and TG.  The Rags stuff has too many titanic mistakes that go unexplained to be considered credible.

Kid Cruz had multiple Beyer figures that were best, was 8-5, with the betting pool on big days filled with mainstream money, it is a VERY FAIR statement to say this wasn\'t an isolated example of a horse looking fast to the public but slower on TG.  (like Cupid and Flintshire, as examples).

Never looked at the Sheets product, but was sitting at FAvorites here in NJ next to Rags users who mentioned Kid Cruz looked \"solid\".  Whatever that means.

All that said, I spent a good 30 minutes handicapping the Pick-5 BEFORE the races went off, using the TG figures, on the board, and didn\'t hear a peep from Touchgold about Kid Cruz, or any other horse.  So an offer to send me the Sheets after the race to show me how he was a toss, is just another Red-Board.

Jim

[jimbo66]

Frank,
 
The less about handicapping, the more posts the thread seems to draw.

Have to say, was disappointed to spend a bit of time talking through a half million dollar guaranteed pick-5 on Belmont day and getting very little serious feedback on any of my thoughts.

Jim

[touchgold]

ill leave it at my prior posts...it all about interpretation....how many times have we seen here different people like different horses in same race....for me, KC was slower than last year, and his last 3 were 2 points slower than winner and same as second place finisher 8/5 vs 7/2 and 9/1..not a puzzle....and again, I cant come on here, and give away a seminar horse...but no one has taken me up on my friday email, so, ill leave it at that...was KC crazy to play on either data? NO.....was he way faster on tg? yes....was he borderline on sheets...sure....

[touchgold]

jimbo, this stems from your assertion he was FASTEST ON ALL DATA....nothing more....so, it is about handicapping....