Stumbling Your Way Into Winners Circle

[davidrex]

Three of them today at Belmont.
If pace makes the race and speed kills;where does being a klutz fit into racing?
They finally found a way to rate Teuf;huh CTMC?!
Maybe if Pino would have put H.Spun to his knees,he\'d still be aboard.NAH!

[Michael D.]

all the talk about Pino blowing it was foolish.

they could have ridden HS a hundred different ways in the Derby and Preakness, and his best finishes would have been 2nd and 3rd. in fact, if the horse had been rated more in either race, he might have found trouble and/or run wide, and could have finished worse.

Pino got the best possible outcome in two consecutive triple crown races. good work imo.

the connections should be ashamed.

when Gomez wanted out, you had to seriously downgrade HS\'s chances vs the filly. he knew.

[Chuckles_the_Clown2]

lol, good point

Thank goodness for Teufle, I would have lost even with Curlin up.

Rags is a good filly. She was well spotted today and came through. I wouldnt\' bet her with hindsight though if she had to run against the same group.

You\'ll win these fillies out of division races most times. The women always bet them. Rags got the biggest cheers when she came out on the track. That tells you something. There was massive Lady Dollars on her. We\'ll get Rags next time, or the next filly that is overbet.

Look at it this way. If we keep Rags off the Board, can you imagine what the payout potential was? Granted this time it looks like Curlin would have won, but there was a ton of Belmont Day Pletcher Lady money hooked up in that race.

davidrex Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Three of them today at Belmont.
> If pace makes the race and speed kills;where does
> being a klutz fit into racing?
> They finally found a way to rate Teuf;huh CTMC?!
> Maybe if Pino would have put H.Spun to his
> knees,he\'d still be aboard.NAH!

[fkach]

Michael,

I don\'t disagree with you too often, but I think HS\'s distance limitations yesterday have nothing to do with Pino riding like an idiot in the Preakness.  

His Derby ride was fine, but he did earn that position on the front end. It wasn\'t an easy trip. Take a look at how Stormello and Teuflesberg ran yesterday and how they faired chasing HS in the Derby through a tough opening 1/2.

HS was eager yesterday, but Gomez did a fine job of keeping him relaxed behind a slow pace. That\'s the way he should have been ridden in the Preakness. He probably would not have won anyway, but suicide is never a good option. 12F was just outside the horse\'s range yesterday.

[Michael D.]

fkach Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Michael,
>
> I don\'t disagree with you too often, but I think
> HS\'s distance limitations yesterday have nothing
> to do with Pino riding like an idiot in the
> Preakness.  


I don\'t think they did, and I\'m pretty sure I didn\'t write anywhere that they did.

HS wasn\'t getting the distance yesterday, and that is a different issue.

I\'m just warning against betting HS because you think he can run better without Pino. Gomez could add a length or two I guess (though it\'s not my call), but that will be fully reflected in the odds

[fkach]

I said this a couple of weeks ago, but I\'m not sure if it was here or on another board. IMO, HS has been handled poorly this spring.

I realize he ran very well in the Derby, but I still think the 22 44 workout prior to the Derby made the horse overly aggressive at a time when he was just learning to relax. It may have signaled that he was ready for a big effort, but IMO it was still a mistake.

I thought he was ridden poorly in the Preakness.

I thought distance limitations were at least possible going into yesterday\'s race given his running style and tendency to back up a little late. Plus he hasn\'t been out of hard training since last year. He\'s had the longest toughest campaign of anyone. If I owned him, I would have freshened him up and pointed him to the Haskell at 9F. Now, I\'d bet anything they have a very tired horse in their barn. He hasn\'t won a Grade 1 yet and they may not be able to rejuvenate him in time for a peak effort at 9F in the Haskell.

He may not be as good as Curlin or SS, but he\'s a fine horse. I don\'t think he\'s had a fair shake at proving it.

[bobphilo]

Fkach,

Agree completely about HS. There was a good deal of trash being talked by the horse’s detractors, both before and even after the Derby and Preakness, that the horse could not be rated. One would have to be blind not to admit that he proved his tractability again by rating off the dawdling Belmont pace. He’s just not a 12-furlong horse.

Bob

[fkach]

Bob,

Agree.

I think Gomez also proved what a great rider he is. The horse tried to get himself involved a bit early, but Gomez was strong enough and skilled enough to restrain him without making the horse rank despite the very slow fractions.

[davidrex]

The only problem with Hard Spun is the way he\'s managed.
This began cropping up after he raced at Oaklawn,where he didn\'t like the track.
Sure Gomez could have turned the tables at both Oak./Pimlico.    
Only thing he turned was his tail,and TRY to escape.

[gohorse10]

HS was taken out of his game in his last two races. He wants to be on the lead. You put him up front and then you get him to relax. Good horses get brave when they are controlling the race. He still might not be good enough to win any way but you would give him  his best chance to win. I don\'t think you can find that many horses capable of running him down. The KD was the perfect example he was very game & got beat by a better horse that day.

I think GG should of given HS his head & made them all try & get me if you can. HS used more energy by being restrained than just running freely. You tend to piss a horse off when you do what GG did in the Bel. Like I said he might not have won but he would of had a better chance if he went 6 in 1:13.

[NoCarolinaTony]

I couldn\'t agree with you more. He should have controlled the pace and see what happens. Another weirdly run race, without POLYTRACK to blame. I guess when you deal with pace-less fields this is what you end up with.

I also think Albarado should have moved sooner and play catch me if you can, but he waited and found himself on the inside part of the track at Belmont. Think Johnny V ran a good race against these Jockeys on this day. It was a tactically run race, and the better tactician won on this day.

Take nothing away from Rags to Riches, she ran a courageous race.

Please lets drop the Trainer drug rhetoric, the butchered adapted song lyrics, the triple crown series is over. LEts make some money.

I hope someone bet Tueflsberg yesterday. I picked him on my handicapping team, bit didn\'t play him.

Tony

[shanahan]

NC Tony...if only I\'d have had Tbrg...I\'d still be buying rounds for the house - he knoccked me out of every bet - ending pik 3, pik 4 start,...you name it, he nailed me ...interesting thing though...the wife bet him across & I completely ignored her...when she wins (even when I lose) it\'s pleasant at home.

[MO]

I agree with gohorse10 100%. Hard Spun\'s only chance is on the lead.

[fkach]

You can make the case that in the Belmont he should have been sent because the pace was slow. But the Belmont proved that he could be restrained behind \"slow\" fractions without getting overly rank and still make a nice run (he did before stopping because of distance limitations). He was tugging a little, but he was in a relaxed stride all the way.

Sitting behind the much faster Preakness pace and making a run when appropriate should have been an easy task since he was already in the right position at the start.  

Had he been \"given his head\" in the Preakness right from the start, he would have finished well off the board. Suicide is never the right option.

IMO this is the HS story.

1. He\'s really a miler that can stretch out a little further

2. He was worked in 22 44 in company before the Derby which made him aggressive at a time when they should have been teaching him to relax.

3. It took a trip by a closer that came with a blessing from God to beat him in the Derby.

4. He was ridden foolishly in the Preakness

5. He\'s probably a tired horse after a very long campaign and should have been rested and pointed towards the Haskell where the conditions would have been favorable for him intead of beating him to death at a distance beyond his range in the Belmont and probably ruining him for his late summer and fall campaign.

[gohorse10]

HS out ran 19 horses in the derby by setting a good pace & was very game after SS went by him. I don\'t think distance is a problem.
 I don\'t think Pino did a bad job in the preakness. I think the horse wanted to go & he had to let him.
 Gomez will not be on HS if his trainer has any say.
I still think HS likes to be on the lead and will relax after he is out in front.