Rachel vs. Zenyatta???

[P-Dub]

Silver Charm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> P-Dub Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > You mean like Sunday Silence beating Easy Goer
> 3
> > out of 4 times settled that one??
> >
> > One race doesn\'t settle anything.
>
> Well I guess this confirms there are Japanese on
> deserted islands in green fatigues carrying
> weapons who still believe the war isn\'t
> over...........

You must be one of the hippies still smoking.  

So you\'re saying 1 race is the definitive event that tells all??  Nice.

Because as has been proven time and time again, all races are the same. Or do you disagree with the statement??

[P-Dub]

JB,

Your baseball analogy is right on.

But if a horse beats another 3 out of 4 times, with the 3 wins being on a neutral track and the lone defeat being on the other horse\'s home track, wouldn\'t that be a little different?

You\'re not suggesting that because EG won by 7, and SS won by a combined 2-3, that EG based on cumulative lengths beaten is better??

[TGJB]

Since you asked, I\'m saying that on figures EG was better. Whittingham was a better trainer. What people don\'t remember is that in those days the NY preps were 2 weeks apart. EG ran huge in the Gotham, back on 2 weeks in the Wood (another big one), back on 2 weeks in the Derby (off race in the slop-- way off his top), back on 2 weeks in the Preakness (forward move, not a top)-- 4 races in 6 weeks. He finally got 3 weeks before the Belmont-- new top.

Overall, he made 11 starts in 8 months as a 3yo.

[Dana666]

You must have some other mare in mind!? So Smith isn\'t going to take Z back to last, let her settle and circle the field like he has in every single start she\'s ever had? What ODDS would you give that she isn\'t a) last at the half mile and b) the widest path of any horse in the race turning for home? That might be a better payoff than either horse! Not like it has mattered much, only means she wins by a nose instead of 5 or 10 lengths. I\'m not knocking Smith (as many here love to do); I mean she\'s a big giant mare with a huge stride and the last thing you ever want is to make her interrupt her run because she gets faster as the race gets longer as the momentum builds, Smith tries mostly not to get in the way of that physical equation and he hasn\'t.

[Flighted Iron]

Dana,

Not so sure 1 turn is the more fair test.HP made a good point regarding PP and
ground loss.Imo,Rachel has the best of it going 1 turn.Probably a moot subject
anyhow.What\'s the skinny on Z being sent east? 5/2 against?

mjs

[Dana666]

I sure hope you\'re wrong. I mean how can Sheriffs turn down the deal? National TV, huge purse, 50,000 people at Belmont??? This would be one of the great races in thoroughbred history. Could he ever say she was the greatest (or one of) the greatest mares of all time without beating Rachel, never mind the males in the BC classic, for example? You gotta feel for him, I mean managing perhaps the only other major horse in modern times (Personal Ensign was the other, right?) to go undefeated is a lot of pressure and you don\'t want to make a mistake, but I would lose a lot of respect if he avoided this chance. I couldn\'t imagine it really.

[Flighted Iron]

Dana,

I sure hope you\'re right that I\'m wrong.JB made a golf analogy in an earlier
post and these two getting it on would be as exciting for me as say Hogan,Nicklaus
and Woods coming down the stretch all tied in a major.Unfortunately in golf we
have to hope it happens whereas in racing all the owners need to do is tee it up.

mjs

[NoCarolinaTony]

Silver,

Most of those guys have passed on by now. It\'s their children who will take up that fight.

NCT

[TGJB]

Dave Johnson has been trying to get the Meadowlands to do something a whole lot more interesting than that, and infinitely better for the game. Halftime of Monday night football, on ESPN, Vikings/Packers no less...

[smalltimer]

I\'ve stated on several occassions that Zenyatta IS coming to run against Rachel, somewhere in the next 4 months.

Regardless of which camp you\'re in, most of the guys on here hope my prediction comes true. This race will generate a ton of interest and smack talking.  It\'ll be fun as long as it doesn\'t get too personal. (Which isn\'t likely given the styles of some of the forum posters).  If both these runners stay healthy, it is gonna happen.  

Nothing is concrete, but, this is a confrontation that absolutely cannot be avoided by the connections, specifically Z\'s connections.  A race between the two has to happen in order for Z to be placed in that elite company of great fillies.

In my opinion, should that race occur, the first 7 or 8 furlongs of the race will be nothing new for Rachel or Zenyatta.  The last part of the race should be a real eye opener for one of them.

[Silver Charm]

Hey I was smoking that wicked weed for about 9 months. You know the one.

\"Easy Goer is better than Sunday Silence no matter what the results keep coming up.\"

Finally after the last debacle I woke up. Better tactical speed, better agility, better athleticism. Better horse.

At the risk of being thrown off this Board where is that on the Sheet? Why are there Race Shapes in the Product now. Just look at who has the fastest number and the best percentage to hold that figure base on Thoro-Pattern and bet that, right?

It is not that easy or simple and every knowledgable handicapper knows that.

[Silver Charm]

TGJB Wrote:
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> Since you asked, I\'m saying that on figures EG was
> better. Whittingham was a better trainer.

I think you are being a little tough on Shug here. Whittingham had more experience in getting ready for these big races.

Also the Phipps family has always been great to NYRA and very dedicated to those races. A Mile and a Half prep three(?) weeks out of the BC Classic would get somebody removed as the trainer today.

[Dana666]

Wow, that\'s really interesting. We need more unique stuff like that. I\'m all for things that attract new fans, as long as they don\'t detract from the game. I always thought great horses in highly competitive events were the best selling point (better than any gimmick). Just play up the drama of the sport itself.

[Dana666]

Well said!

[spa]

IMO,if they race late in the Fall,Zenyatta will win.......Rachel will be on the decline,she\'s been dancing every dance.