One Last Time

[bellsbendboy]

Mike one of the more rewarding qualities of handicapping thoroughbreds is defining the class of a race.  Since it is much more art than science (difficult to quantify) opinions vary.

Speed, performance measures, raw times etc. are just a part of the class puzzle.  A more direct assessment, in a word, is accomplishment.  Horses who have successfully competed (won) at the level of todays race will more often than not beat horses who have not achieved said success.

Yesterdays ROTW illustrates this nicely.  There were only two grade one winners in the field and they were far in front of the others at the wire.  Tough trip Emotional Kitten had plenty competitive number power yet was a bit short on class, at least in my mind.  She was a tagged up 2yo, and had never beaten older. bbb

[miff]

Fuster,

Put that more in the \"character\" category.Some horses always give it their all,very brave, emboldened when hooked, others become intimidated when confronted and retreat.


Mike

[miff]

\"Horses who have successfully competed (won) at the level of todays race will more often than not beat horses who have not achieved said success\"

Bell,

You are back to consistently faster, it\'s always reverts back there.Take any level you wish and filter it, you will find the most accomplished to be consistently faster than their peer group...pretty much commom sense.


Mike

[TGJB]

That one is hilarious.

So it should be no problem to give us these examples of \"class\" before some races.

The concept of class goes back to a time when people did not have access to speed figures unless they made their own, it was a way of generally figuring out the relative strengths of fields ON AVERAGE, which is what Miff basically said. In that way it\'s no different than using claiming pars to make figures. But you\'re not handicapping the average 10 claimer, you\'re handicapping this one, and those races are full of horses who accomplished a lot in better races at some point in their careers. Along the way they seem to have lost some class.

[mjellish]

IMO he concept of \"class\" has really changed over the years.  Before good figures were widely available I think it meant something different than it does now.  But this is the information age, plain and simple.  And I have no problem playing a top figure horse stepping up in \"class\" to faster competition so long as the figure was earned honestly (see Utley in the Dixie as a recent example, or for those who remember Zaftig on the undercard at Belmont a few years ago).

Did Wise Dan win his last two on \"Class\" although he didn\'t run his best number?  Did Zenyatta win her races on \"Class\" as she seemed to always run just fast enough to win.  Did Shackleford or Animal Kingdom have \"Class?\"  What about Secretariat? Did Ghostzapper have class or was he just fast?

I dunno,  I think it makes sense to look at graded stakes horses a little differently than claimers, especially on turf.  You can\'t measure heart or a will to win.  But you can measure fast, medium or slow.  They time the races for a reason. And again, I will play a top figure horse that earned it\'s figure honestly and is doing something it probably wants to do anytime, and I don\'t care about it\'s \"Class.\"

[FrankD.]

This CLASS discussion really surprises me; as MJ points out it has changed dramatically over the past 30 years. Those of us that play 250 days or more a year have seen Oscar,  Pistol, Gas Man, Johnny P, Scott Lake, Frank Passero, Jorge Navarro and on and on and on at your venue de jour claim a lot of CLASS horses. How else do they suddenly get so much faster?

Hay, Oats and CLASS; remember what Oscar Barrera said when asked why he claimed Shifty Sheik, what did he see that no other trainer could? Oscar\'s reply was he had a good Mother!!!

The creme does find its way to the top.

Good luck,

Frank D.

[heatherk]

Speaking of cream Frank, how about Cream Freich(sp)?

[Boscar Obarra]

Oscar was the best, and if you gave him a dirty look.........he gave you one back.

[Boscar Obarra]

Cherry picking some random race to prove a point, sorry, not buying it.

A nebulous concept like \'class\' is never going to be defined here, or anywhere.

 My best shot, the willingness to try just a little harder when asked.