YES!!!!!!! Grand Arch ROTW!!!!!!!

[miff]

Brad Free(DRF)did something about Cali turf races with rails out, speed horses/ up close runners had a win rate improvement over when rails at zero.

Someone may have the DRF article, it was at least a couple of years ago and maybe just about Santa Anita turf not sure but he concluded speed/up close had an edge when rails out.

[TGJB]

I\'m open to data, and I\'m open to someone making a case (i.e., a short stretch hurts closers because they have to move earlier on the turn and lose ground). What I\'m not open to is people simply making assertion after assertion with no backup. Gimme a break. This board is supposed to be better than that.

[bellsbendboy]

JB, The assertion is that horses run faster on straights than they do on turns. Nothing more than that!   bbb

[TGJB]

Does that apply just to frontrunners, closers, or both?

[bellsbendboy]

Suspect your question is tongue in cheek but...

If you accept that horses run faster on straightaways then connecting the dots is rather simple.

First, it is correct that when a race is carded and stays green the distance is locked in.  Moving the rails out does NOT change the distance.  About distances vary from track to track but generally the gate is moved outward.

In order to run the race with rails at the carded distance, the starting gate is moved closer to the finish line.  This movement causes \"more\" of the race to be run on turns. Conversely, if the race is on the hedge horses have a longer run to the turn; hence the pace is faster!

Most would agree that a faster pace would flatter a closers chances.

An infrequent poster, Dick Powell wrote an article for brisnet some fifteen years ago and maybe if he reads this he can regurgitate that piece.  In it, he only used Gulfstream Park and while he did not quite spell it out; it is worth reading.

Years ago a crack turf sprinter (Morluc?) was in the Randy Morse barn.  He was a Housebuster gelding and needed a prep before shipping overseas for a seven figure purse where he would be one of the favorites.  Morse lobbied Churchill for an allowance heat at five panels and they wrote it for him.  Unfortunately they set the rails at twenty two feet and an incensed Morse scratched.  His comments ( I believe they were in the Bloodhorse, but could not locate) gave a very cogent, convincing argument supporting the tenet.  bbb

[TGJB]

I have no idea whether there\'s any data to back up the idea that rails give a certain running style an advantage or whether there\'s a good reason it should, but that \"logic\" is nonsense. Horses take longer around turns not because they\'re expending any less energy, but because it takes more time to run around a turn. That\'s why every figure maker uses a turn correction in his figures. The difference between a one turn mile and two turn mile in final time is about 3 points. If all that was happening was they were going slower because they were all saving energy on the turns they would all have more energy left for the straightaway, and final times would be the same. If you don\'t believe that, look at the final fractions for some of the slow pace races, like the 3yo filly grass stake at Saratoga opening weekend.

In general, the more turns, the more advantage to having the lead because of saving ground. But there are very few (if any) races where the number of turns changes because there\'s a temporary rail up.

[Bet Twice]

I don\'t necessarily subscribe to this but assume the rationale is that as the rail moves out the track and therefore the turns get larger in circumference.  A one turn mile with the rails out 25 feet ends up being run more on the turn than with the rails in.  With more of the race run on the turn inside position gained by a front runner (or any other horse) would benefit them more than a typical race.

[SoCalMan2]

This may be a little stupid, but let me ask a question -- how does this play out with tracks inside of tracks?  At Aqu, we have the dirt and inner dirt right next to each other.  At Belmont and Saratoga, there is the main turf and inner turf.  They are like concentric ovals.  Woudlnt moving the rails all the way out on the inner result in the next oval up?

[TGJB]

Those courses are a lot wider than 18 feet.

[NormandyInvasion]

Why would this apply to just front runners when closers (particularly deep closers) could have the same rail and ground saving trip?

[TGJB]

It applies to anyone who saves ground, but it\'s a lot tougher to save ground coming from behind than with no-one in front of you. Except, evidently, in the Whitney.