Chad Brown

[Bet Twice]

Rez - I\'m with you on the inability to keep something like that quiet, especially in the larger barns of TAP, CB, etc...my assumption has been that rather than using anything illegal they invest the time and money in understanding what can be used when, in what jurisdiction, under what circumstances using an optimized delivery protocol.  Could it be they spend the money to be on the cutting edge of equine medication protocols and in exploiting every loophole out there? As with human medication/doctors there are the 90% that follow the tried and true approaches and the 10% that are on the cutting edge, trying the latest and greatest science has to offer - surely they do not all get the same results.  Just a theory but find it hard to believe that any big name trainer would get away with anything else, particularly over such a length of time and with such an incentive for someone to blow the whistle.

[Rich Curtis]

\"As someone who deals with civil fraud and the forensic work that often goes with it,it is impossible--not difficult-impossible-to keep the type of behavior we are talking about \"secret\"and not have one or more disgruntled employees rat someone out.\"

How can you know this?

[sekrah]

Bet Twice Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Rez - I\'m with you on the inability to keep
> something like that quiet, especially in the
> larger barns of TAP, CB, etc...my assumption has
> been that rather than using anything illegal they
> invest the time and money in understanding what
> can be used when, in what jurisdiction, under what
> circumstances using an optimized delivery
> protocol.  Could it be they spend the money to be
> on the cutting edge of equine medication protocols
> and in exploiting every loophole out there? As
> with human medication/doctors there are the 90%
> that follow the tried and true approaches and the
> 10% that are on the cutting edge, trying the
> latest and greatest science has to offer - surely
> they do not all get the same results.  Just a
> theory but find it hard to believe that any big
> name trainer would get away with anything else,
> particularly over such a length of time and with
> such an incentive for someone to blow the whistle.

Probably the winning answer.  It\'s the same reason Hendricks dominates in NASCAR and McClaren and Ferrari dominate F1. They got the most money, most testing, most research, etc..  They know where they can cut corners and push the envelope.

How many barns can afford hyperbaric oxygen chambers and swimming pools? How many can afford the full-time staff to take them for these types of specialized treatments and training?  When you see small-timers blow up with huge win %, they are probably straight cheating with needles. The big boys with the money have the top stuff and staff to maximize performance.

[FrankD.]

Ramon Preciado said so.

[Silver Charm]

Well then you figured it out. Walton is the link. He brought the stuff in that his Dad\'s UCLA teams were using when they won 88 in row. So if the Lakers are a playoff team next year....

Have a good day. I\'m on the Golf course in 15!!

[rezlegal]

46 years of litigating and common sense- does it make any sense to you that over many racing jurisdictions, each with more than super trainer, some disgruntled employee, fired vet, or someone would not have come forward? Not once? Makes no sense to me. In terms  of being \"sure\" I obviously have no proof that would stand up in a court of law-- unless you consider horse after horse being claimed by the same crew moving up a zillion lengths-- and staying at that level\'for many races- sufficient circumstantial evidence.( Even the revered bounce pattern often needs to be thrown out). For what it\'s worth I have convinced myself that my poor ROI on claiming sprints is because I have no ability- none- to make logical assumptions base on patterns that sometimes defy everything I hold dear as an recreational but passionate handicapper.  Until Miffs post, I Had also assumed my positive ROI ON TURF distance races was purely the  of my handicapping brilliance ( insert tongue in cheek here). As stated in my previous post, I try real hard not to think about this stuff when I decide to bet- because it isn\'t healthy for my self image!

[jimbo66]

No view on chad brown using or not using, but Flintshire not the use case to prove it, no matter how well he looked physically on the track yesterday.   As many pointed out here prior to the race, this horse was one of the best on the planet before chad brown ever had him.

Tons of better examples of trainers claiming horses for 12k, that have no speed, returning them 30 days later with blazing early speed and re-break skills

Jim

[TGJB]

Flintshire had run in the US twice before, possible slight new top yesterday. (Check out the time for the last quarter, and it wasn\'t just him). Not just first time CB, first time Lasix. Castellano did a good job of not losing too much ground, too.

Frosted looks to get even better than Miff had him, I think. Now there\'s a guy who got some numbers this weekend. Kiaran and Jerkens either hot or cold.

[FrankD.]

Richard,

I agree with you one million percent, common sense tells you that in a large multi state operation with hundreds of employees keeping stuff like this hidden is IMPOSSIBLE. Especially today in our social media, 24 hour news looking for stories world.

In a former life I had 2 very old and dear friends who were a few years older than me. They both grew up in blue collar families, going to the track in August, betting sports and horses at the corner bars with their favorite bookie or bookies. One ended up in one of the top slots in the NY State Police BCI, the other was a local cities police chief. Both told me on numerous occasions that we get a lot more credit than we deserve. \"Our guys aren\'t that smart or ambitious if it were not for informants (i.e. rats) we would not know too much and would probably be out of a job\"

Both of these gentlemen used to place wagers with a guy who could be my twin brother back in the days before cell phones, computers, etc... they were smart enough to both have family members place their bets. They would never be caught on tape placing a bet that could cost them their careers.

We had Navarro win with 2 jump ups Derby and Oaks day during super testing. We have Miff casting a stone at Chad Brown during NYRA\'s festival of super testing and patron fleecing. I\'ve stated it myself here many times about TAP\'s magical mystical waters at PBD or PM during the winter.

I\'m certainly not naive enough to believe that we do not have rampant drug abuse in our sport of choice. There are cheaters in cycling, track & field, baseball, football, tennis, etc... We have many who are flat out bold about it and rub it in everyones face as spineless racing and gaming commissions constantly do little or nothing about it.

 We as T-generates see jump up performances on a graph that sometimes defy logic.
Some can be rationalized by hay, oats, water, a few superior horseman, a maturing horse, equipment change et al. Many more are by top outfits (agree with Sekrah about big operations and money) walking the line, knowing the moronic inconsistent
permissable levels that change like the wind from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. Spending money on dentists, chiro work, acupuncture, shoes, legal supplements, hyperbaric chambers etc....

No one has ever accused Bill Mott of cheating yet ask his owners about the bills that they receive? He spends a fortune on his horses care. I had 1000 AM cocktails one morning about 15 years ago with a very prominent Nick Zito client who loved winning big races but confessed to \"you would not believe the bills and treatments he put his horses through\" at the time Zito was in the same breath as Lucas & Baffert during triple crown season.

The bottom line is we all know there are flat out cheaters getting away with a lot! We choose to wager, amend our wagers attempting to avoid specific types of races and venues where we perceive it to exist. We know we have states more interested in their rake and take from the game philosiphies than caring about the horses or least of all the gamblers who fuel the game.

At the end of the day all we have our suspicions, innuendos, theories, phobias especially when we get beat. None of us know or can prove poop!

Frank D.

[miff]

Agree Frank but winning with move cheap claimers not nearly as difficult as  consistently winning at the highest level( stakes, allowances)

Very true about huge vet bills from top outfits which must help.

[BitPlayer]

I\'ve wondered for a while whether the trend towards putting horses on the shelf for a while during the Triple Crown trail (Nyquist and Destin being the most recent examples) is somehow related to use of steroidal or related medications that add muscle mass but then are out of the horse\'s system by the time it returns to racing.

[Chas04]

LOL

[boston]

Whittingham was plenty patient and I was pretty good over the grass - he won at a 18% clip.  Here is one of my favorite quotes at the bottom of this post.

From a 1989 NY Times article written by Crist -

By the end of last year, Whittingham had trained 212 different horses who had won stakes races, including eight who had won Eclipse Awards as divisional champions: Ack Ack, Cougar II, Dahlia, Estrapade, Ferdinand, Perrault, Porterhouse and Turkish Trousers. Ack Ack in 1971 and Ferdinand in 1987 both were also named Horse of the Year.

His dominance of major California stakes is astounding, including six victories in the Santa Anita Handicap and a mind-boggling 14 in the San Juan Capistrano, at 1 3/4 miles the year\'s longest Grade I race. When visitors ask the distance of that race, the standard reply from California race-trackers is \'\'Oh, they just keep running around until Charlie\'s horse gets to the front.\'\'