Big Money Mike

[Strike]

Best by category for me as an CA-based owner and bettor --
Overall (Shoe), Timing (Eddie D), Smart (McCarran), Strength (Pincay), Durable (Stevens).

[richiebee]

Yeah I guess I kind of age outed myself by bringing up a 1976 race.

Rating jockeys (across generations no less) should have something for
everybody, anecdotal and statistical (and since this is the TG spot, using the
TG database, who was (is) the ground savingest racerider around?)

Not to mention we all have our favorites. They are not always the riders named
in the \"Top 5\" / \"Top 10\" discussions. I know that Young Jimbo has always been
partial to Ramon Dominguez and going back a bit more, to Rick Wilson, a tough
customer on the lead in Pa and NJ. I have some very good memories of Vince
\"Jimbo\" (no relation) Bracciale when he rode at Monmouth.

Too many statistics available to ignore: winning %, in exacta %, earnings per
mount (dollar/year adjusted of course), graded stakes, record turf, record
dirt, ground saved, ROI, record in photos where winning margin was less than
1/2 length. Sure I am missing a few. MY OPINION: We are fooling ourselves if
we think we are having an enlightened dialogue if some statistical yardstick
is not at least referred to.

That being said, let me add that all of the riders named by Jimbo, Frank
and Strike would put forth a 100% effort in a big race, a graded race. Graded
races make up what percentage of all races run?

Competitiveness, strength (weight), timing, horsemanship, ability to hustle
out of the gate when necessary, finisher (of those I have seen)....

Pincay, Cordero, McCarron, Smith

Other personal favorites who would otherwise never be mentioned in a
discussion like this: Jorge \"Chop Chop\" Chavez, Jacinto \"Hands of Stone\"
Vasquez.

[jimbo66]

Richie,

thanks for the reminder.  how quickly we forget.  Not sure how I could have forgotten Ramon.  he is my favorite.  Edited the original post.  Took PVal off, Ramon in.  

As for being \"young\", it is unfortunate that the demographics of the population of racing fans is what it is.  There is no better sign that this is a dying game we participate than in looking around at the OTB Parlor or track you attend (removing Saratoga from that on the east coast).

I have gone to the Favorites OTB in Toms River with my old man a few times this year and have told him that is basically the only place we can go to where he is the median age and I am \"young\" guy (at 69 and 49 respectively...)

Not a lot of interest in the next generation in our game.

[P-Dub]

FrankD. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So much for trying to give Richie and the \" young
> gun\" a history lesson.
>
> The parameters are set:
> Who are the top 5 jocks that you have seen and or
> wagered on in your lifetime?
> Where is Miff, we might have got Issac Murphy.
>
> Frank D\'s top 5 not in any particular order. Shoe,
> Pincay, Cordero, Kent D. & Pat Day.


What a tough question, and one where there will never be agreement.

The obvious greatest is Mike Smith.

So many great ones mentioned, being a West Coast guy here are the ones I like.

Stevens, McCarron, Pincay Jr, Eddie D, Kent D.

A guy from the Bay Area who is my all time favorite is Ron Hansen. Saw him win 6 races on Cal Derby Day in the early 90\'s, when the Bay Area colony was pretty good and pretty deep. That day he won on turf, dirt, route, sprint. On the lead or with his patented close. Few, if any, favorites. Loved the way he took out his whip, like a saber. That dude could flat out ride with anyone.  Of course, his wild lifestyle caught up with him as most of us know that story.

[Tavasco]

Honorable mention:

Rosie Napravnik (Fan Favorite)

Chantal Sutherland (Photogenic)

Kayla Stra (Adventurous)

Mary Bacon (Poorest Judgement)

Rosemary Homeister (the only female jockey to win the Clasico del Caribe)

[richiebee]

Jimbo:

If we are getting into the age issue, again the statistics are buried there
somewhere. We all know that even with the impressive live gate at this years
BC (nearly 120K over the two days) the game in the present and in the future
will be primarily played online. Would be interesting to somehow extract
information from ADWs as to who is playing, how old they are, and how much
they are playing. Software, syndicates, rebate players, etc.

I agree that this game will for various reasons not be attractive to folks in
their twenties.

In your neck of the woods, I am interested to hear the results of the North
Jersey Casino referendum, which has been tied to the future viability of NJ\'s
two remaining large racetracks, Monmouth and The Meadowlands. Almost all of
the advertising I have seen/heard is AGAINST the opening of North NJ casinos.
Hate to sound apolitical, but this referendum is the only election result I
care about today.

#weRfukteitherway

[richiebee]

Even tongue in cheek, negligent not to mention the only female rider who rode
like a man (I will let you amend your post to include her), and to leave off the
\"photogenic\" Diane Nelson, who held her own in a tough NY jocks colony.

[Tavasco]

OK Chantal out and  a slot is open for Elizabeth Taylor or whomever.

I was unfamiliar with Ms. Nelson. Below is a link (I hope) to an article about three (3) pioneers. Interesting to learn one was even married to Fred Astaire.


\"Girls of Racing\"

[belmont3]

Mary Bacon:  


The Kidnapped Kid

I would comment but this story has it all.

http://www.theracingbiz.com/2014/06/24/today-racing-history-mary-bacon/

[jimbo66]

Paul,

Hmm...  I feel better about your misguided view of Zenyatta being better than Rachel now.

If you can\'t even find a slot for a single east coast or Kentucky based jockey in your top five, there might be a tad of bias in your view.......

Jim

[P-Dub]

jimbo66 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Paul,
>
> Hmm...  I feel better about your misguided view of
> Zenyatta being better than Rachel now.
>
> If you can\'t even find a slot for a single east
> coast or Kentucky based jockey in your top five,
> there might be a tad of bias in your view.......
>
> Jim


It\'s not misguided. It\'s my opinion, just like you thinking the opposite is yours.

I clearly said I\'m a West Coast guy, so I listed those jockeys. I didn\'t realize you would have problems comprehending that simple statement. That jockey colony was the best around, arguably the best of all time. So if I did name 5 from out here, it\'s not a bad list. I\'ve watched those guys countless more times. I didn\'t see enough of Cordero, Vasquez, etc. to form an opinion.

Every list here contains some sort of bias. Just like your little dig about Zenyatta.

I can\'t wait to hear you tell me how Easy Goer was better than Sunday Silence. Who rode the \"better\" horse to defeat 3 out of 4 times? Wasn\'t it that all time great that belongs on some top 5 lists??

Shoe, Pincay, Smith, Kent D, Mccarron, Stevens. West Coast or not, hard to argue their greatness.

[plasticman]

Bettors don\'t collect more money on their bet if the jockey wins more money for the owners (and himself) of the horses he rides. To me, a cheap claiming race is just as important as the BC Classic if it\'s a race I happen to bet. Mikes success does ME no good I only care about how wide he is when I bet him in an overnight race.

[FrankD.]

A BRILLIANT OBSERVATION.

I\'m sure you spent all 60 hours since the initial post in deep thought and research coming up with such a lucent response.

[jimbo66]

Nope paul,

That would be a biased opinion (like yours about the jockeys)

Sunday silence rhe better horse, proved it on the track.


Didn\'t realize they didn\'t have TVs on the west coast when Cordero was around.

Listing 5 west coast jockeys as the best just too biased.   I thought even for u.

Pretty sure the rest of us east coasters all had lists that included both coasts

[P-Dub]

Jim,

You\'re taking this way too seriously.

I didn\'t see enough of Cordero, or many of the East Coast jockeys. All I said was here are the 5 that I like. That\'s it.

As far as bias, every list has a bias to it.  

Its really not that big of a deal. Lets just drop it.