Thorograph Seminar

[moosepalm]

T Severini Wrote:
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> --------------------------------------------------
>
> I think I gotcha moosepalm, the young TGJB:


I’d like to think he wouldn’t be terribly offended by a generalized comparison, but the “younger” will kill him.

[Rich Curtis]

Mjellish wrote:

\"And save the red boarding altogether no matter what you buy or how you use it.\"

Which type of redboarding do you think is worse, his type or your type?

[mjellish]

Rich, I have no clue what you are referring to.  I\'m not as witty as you.  Help me understand.  Far as I can remember I haven\'t posted anything about how I did on the Derby.

[Rich Curtis]

Oh, cool. Now that I have your definition, I am going to embrace it.

Myself, I figured that if they got out of the gate and ran their race, Justify would win, Good Magic would finish second, Audible would finish third, and Instilled Regard would finish fourth.

Now let\'s see if we can get everybody else to play by our definition.

Let the non-redboarding begin!

[mjellish]

WTF?

You are obviously referring to my reply to Frank D\'s post.  He posted that he and I had discussed Justify pre race and that both his and my opinion of Justify had changed.  He invited me BY NAME to respond, and I responded to that post.  That\'s it.    

If that makes me a red boarder in your eyes then I dunno what else to say other than you are being very selective in how you view that post and you are trying to pick a fight with the wrong person for no reason.  I haven\'t said one thing on this board about how I did on the Derby, but there are a few posters out there who know.  If they want to post about it I leave that up to them.

If you still want to pick a fight with me after that then all I have to say is \"Go home and get your shine box.\"

[Chas04]

Lol

[P-Dub]

mjellish Wrote:
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> WTF?
>
> You are obviously referring to my reply to Frank
> D\'s post.  He posted that he and I had discussed
> Justify pre race and that both his and my opinion
> of Justify had changed.  He invited me BY NAME to
> respond, and I responded to that post.  That\'s it.
>    
>
> If that makes me a red boarder in your eyes then I
> dunno what else to say other than you are being
> very selective in how you view that post and you
> are trying to pick a fight with the wrong person
> for no reason.  I haven\'t said one thing on this
> board about how I did on the Derby, but there are
> a few posters out there who know.  If they want to
> post about it I leave that up to them.
>
> If you still want to pick a fight with me after
> that then all I have to say is \"Go home and get
> your shine box.\"

This \"Red Board\" thing is getting ridiculous.

Many don\'t structure tickets or place a win bet and then immediately think, \"I have to go to the Thorograph board and tell everyone what I just bet.\"

I don\'t think MJ told Frank..\"Hey buddy, gotta go. I need to get this conversation on the board by post time.\"

When people take a tough beat, they want to vent a little. I did it Friday afternoon (I also posted plays before the card started, but the ticket I moaned about wasn\'t listed pre race. I\'m sure if it hit the Red Board police would have had sirens blaring).

When you win, you want to celebrate a bit. I have no problem with the guy that hit the super twice, detailing his bet structure. I have no problem with people discussing a winning ticket, after the race and not previously mentioned here, if they at least talk about why they did it.

Folks can learn things from \"Red Boarding\". Its why we have a \"Red Board\" room here.

[FrankD.]

No F’in CLUE how this string got so out of control.

All I know I was the only person on this board that posted a race day play pre-race. I get accused of red boarding . Tell me anyone on this board in the last 10 years that has posted more pre-race plays and sequences than I?

There is a whole how did you do string, I did this, I did that, none of you did a f----g thing as far as I am concerned. You did not post it pre-race. If you post a pre-race play like many do of 1,2/3,4/5,6,7/ 8,9,10 without a t-graph or other handicapping explanation as to why? You threw darts at a board for all I know.

Neither MJ or I claimed a win, did a victory dance or told you we had a life changing moment. We discussed the race a half dozen times, both like many TG players SHOULD looked to beat a 5/2 shot with 3 races who started his career 11 weeks before the country’s biggest race. There were lot’s of questions about the horse. Some were willing to pay to find out, some weren’t, some hedged.

Anyone that knows me or Uncle Bill know that we are tight. If you add up the Spa days I’ve spent with him over the years, it’s well over a year. I talk to him once a month or more throughout the year. I have 10 different guys I communicate with ask me how’s Uncle Bill.

So if a phone call from a 75 year old man who laid eyes on the wonder horse for the first time is part of a made up conspiracy ? Please go to Washington immediately because our President has lot’s of open positions to fill with your type.

Rich I will tell you this, MJ has a private clocker friend, they played together for years. He is all over the country and obviously MJ respects his opinion. He was in Cali all winter and observed Justify very closely. On Wednesday before the Derby I received an email from MJ. “Justify just may be all that” his friend whom he trusts talked him onto the horse. After watching closely his last workout with another pretty good eye for horse actions he was convinced.

Handicappers are not allowed to change their mind? No one ever loved or was negative about a Derby horse a month before and made a different play on Derby Day?

Neither MJ nor I claimed anything after the fact. I simply stated that a respected member of this board and myself amended our opinion of Justify before the race. Both of us posted questions and reasons in the weeks before to try and beat a favorite in a 20 horse field.

What anyone won or lost is NO ONE’S F’in Business....
Neither of us jumped into the we did it string. Maybe it would take a bit more than a Derby superfecta to change either life?

I will say one thing about his play. NOTHING it’s not mine nor anyone else’s business.

[TGJB]

Hey Frank, you\'re getting worked up over anonymous posts on a message board. Only I have reason to do that.

Everybody take it easy. If I can get over Velasquez\' ride in the Oaks you guys can get over this stuff.

[moosepalm]

Clearly some red boarding is more egregious than others.  However, I\'ve rarely seen an instance where it advances the ball in terms of the knowledge base of those perusing the message board.  Invariably, it is self-congratulatory or tries to cover sins discussed before the race, but not publicly countered before the race.  If that vibe gains purchase here with the masses, and is tolerated by the host, then that\'s fine.  But, let\'s be clear about what it is.  I don\'t post my picks before the race because no one in his right mind would want to know what they are, and I don\'t post after, because win, lose or draw, it would provide zero illumination in terms of handicapping expertise, and if I ever do crush it, I don\'t need my ego massaged by spiking the ball in the end zone in front of the three or four people on here I actually know.

[banditbeau]

I am going to agree with P-Dub on this one, and, take it farther. I wish we had MORE redboarding with these loose \"rules\" - obviously make it after the race, and leave out any dollar amount wagered/won.  I am not interested in the location of the decimal point in the wager size.  But I would learn something from how posters like MJ use the data from a seminar or daily sheets to structure potentially profitable wagers. In the derby this year with things being straight forward for the most part number wise, how did people use the seminar for instance to maximize the wager? How did you defensively use the seminar tidbits to potentially cover possible outcomes yet maximize profit if your opinion using TG and the products turns out to be correct?  Otherwise why use a premium product like TG if you have not got the experience to construct a wager set that makes the purchase worthwhile? There have seemingly been lots of good folks here at one time previously who either rarely or never post any more, and some seemed to be put off by this redboarding issue.  But for me I want guys like MJ, or Helmers, or Covello, Frank or some of other folks in your Hall of Fame to offer insight in how they ply their trade so to speak.  Or how about a TG seminar on Sunday mornings saying here is what we discussed on Saturday, how could we have turned this into a great day at the windows.  As it is, by the time many people figure out who might have an edge, they have very little clue how to maximize it.  So if that earns me a \"red hat\" at the next TG seminar for promoting such an idea, I quote Richie loosely \"at my age I\'m about 20 years past worrying about such things\". And I know, the archives have wagering process items, but, seems to me anyway, that any person who goes strictly by that might be able to grind out a profit, but today\'s wagering platform seems to have bypassed this train long ago?  So I say bring on the redboarding - it will be of more value knowledge wise than the conspiracy trails about  jocks, horses, trainers and other issues that dominate some of posts.

bb

[Airnate012]

The strategy I now use to construct my superfecta tickets I learned from reading about other player\'s big scores after the Derby, and the vast majority didn\'t post their plays on any online forum before the race. I guess it was redboarding by them, but for me it was a learning experience and I was appreciative that they shared their story. If anything, I would think it would be a big positive for players using Thorograph (or any other resource) to show how they did, and share what resources/strategies they used to construct their tickets. It could maybe help us all in the long run, as well as bring in new customers to purchase the resource.

[prist]

I\'ll just say that it would have been nice if the super was .10 instead of 1.00.

[P-Dub]

prist Wrote:
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> I\'ll just say that it would have been nice if the
> super was .10 instead of 1.00.

I could imagine the lines at windows and machines if they had .10 supers. On track and off track.

[Boscar Obarra]

Why don\'t they just insist that betting slips, pre filled,  must be used for .10 supers.

 That would pretty much eliminate anyone standing there for an hour