Hollendorfer

[Caradoc]

Was ruled off the grounds today at all tracks operated by The Stronach Group, after a fourth horse of his broke down since the start of the meet, bringing us to a grand total of 30.  Reportedly Del Mar will not offer him stalls either. This follows a CNN hit on him last night.  https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/21/us/santa-anita-horse-deaths-inquiries/index.html

[Fairmount1]

TSG\'s problem solving acumen and PR on this front has been terrific!

TSG has closed the downhill course b/c that was the problem causing horse deaths?
They changed the med rules b/c that was the problem causing horse deaths?
They brought in experts to study the dirt track b/c that was the problem causing the horse deaths?
They kicked Hollendorfer off b/c he was the problem causing the horse deaths?
They brought PETA to the table to assist with solving the problem of horse deaths?

If interested, today\'s unfortunate event happened on the TRAINING track at SA.

Rumors of Tapeta being looked at by Santa Anita.  Wonder if that includes the training track?  

BC looking like a Kentucky affair this year and esp if TSG decides after tomorrow to install poly again.  Hotel prices in Louisville starting to soar for BC weekend.  TSG should go ahead and put a FOR SALE sign on their flagship track out west on Monday.  This will put an end to this charade of a death by a thousand cuts and using a shotgun approach to bandage the wounds.
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Royal Ascot had 483 horses run last 5 days.  Very small sample BUT No breakdowns, no bleeders, no lame horses.  Granted all those races are on turf but without Lasix.  Guess there isn\'t much smog in the London area like here....(one reason that Pro-Lasix folks argue that \'merica is different than Europe for permitting Lasix here).  

I\'m honestly not taking a side here on the Lasix issue.  Just pointing out some facts and ideas discussed here in the past.

[TGJB]

As far as I know there’s never been a single piece of data correlating Lasix use with breakdowns.

[Fairmount1]

Your statement is true according to this article as well.

https://www.paulickreport.com/news/the-biz/rci-no-evidence-furosemide-contributes-to-breakdowns-no-change-in-policy-forthcoming/

Are you opposed to cutting the amount to 5cc and eliminating anti-inflammatories on race day as they did at SA?  I have not heard complaints about bleeding since they made this change (and I may have missed it if there have been bleeding incidents).  But the med changes have not been met with extraordinary opposition by public statements of owners/trainers save the exodus by guys such as Peter Miller (His win percentage has plummeted since early spring)

[TGJB]

Man, it ain’t Lasix, and Pete ain’t winning anywhere.
Re Hollendorfer, you have to read the PETA statement to believe it. Somebody post it.

I hope he sues the s—t out of them.

[Boscar Obarra]

Lol.  I think David J got out just in time.


\"Banning the infamous Hall of Fame trainer Jerry Hollendorfer from all Stronach tracks sends a message to every sleazy trainer that if your horses drop like flies, you will drop with them. Other trainers with multiple violations and the blood of dead horses on their hands should go the same way, pronto. PETA and Social Compassion in Legislation are working with the California Horse Racing Board and California legislators to enact rules and legislation to get to zero fatalities and this means that trainers with multiple violations must not be licensed in this state. Ending racing would be the better, but nothing less than these conditions is acceptable.\"

[Mstrlucky74]

Guys watch the last HBO real sports episode. Very sad

[BB]

They\'ve really amped up the gaudy patter in just a few months. These guys would make Mike Hammer wet his pants.

https://www.thorograph.com/phorum/read.php?1,114601,114766#msg-114766

[Topcat]

Mstrlucky74 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Guys watch the last HBO real sports episode. Very
> sad


If you called it \"piling on\", you\'d be right.

[Fairmount1]

Jerry,

I know it isn\'t Lasix per se that makes a trainer move a horse up.  But the horses and horsemen started scattering when they changed the med rule from 10cc of Lasix and all the anti-inflammatories you can find to 5cc of Lasix and no anti-inflammatories on race day.  Miller, O\'Neill, Hollendorfer, Mullins all took some of their horses elsewhere right away.  

(That\'s right when Miller quit winning although he had a huge blowout win at CD at 12-1 this week to get some spending cash)

I think the higher Lasix dose and anti-inflammatories loaded up allowed whatever illicit pain killers or performance enhancers to be masked, diluted, go undetected, etc.  You have stated that you haven\'t heard about masking in a few years.  This is where you and I disagree though.  The fact is clear that TSG changed the rule and horsemen and horses scattered like rats seeing sunshine for the first time in their lives.  Surely the stricter drug rules were why they ran away, no??  And if so, isn\'t it logical to believe that whatever the super high percentage trainer was doing was necessitated on the 10cc Lasix and anti-inflammatories on race day to implement his \"program\" (that\'s what all these trainers call it) without being detected???

I\'m not necessarily against Lasix to prevent bleeding. We all know Lasix is a performance enhancer and some must think \"More is better.\" But if 5cc or lower quantity accomplishes the goal of preventing bleeding then that\'s what the rule should be. And as I said previously, I haven\'t heard complaints about horses bleeding due to the rule change out there.  Now if only there could be uniformity at all tracks on this and other fronts...……

As FrankD is apt to say, Nero fiddles...

[BitPlayer]

Could be the new rules, but could also be seeking the security of a state in which regulators are not asking the track to shut down.  Kentucky, for example, is the last state in which PETA is going to get a foothold and is, I think, increasing purses as slots (historic racing) are added.

[moosepalm]

We can wail and gnash our teeth until the jackasses come home about PETA or Joe Drape or ESPN or whomever else is jumping on the overreaction bandwagon, but that \"feel good\" response will have nothing to do with addressing what is a major perception problem growing by the day.  I have good friends who are neither racing fans nor animal rights zealots who now talk about this with thinly veiled inferences that this is a sport that should be put out to pasture.  

This is a complex and multi-layered discussion with many technical aspects of medication well above my pay grade, so I\'ll step aside from that, but one general point is glaringly obvious.  When the NFL has a problem, either with CTE\'s or with violence against women by players, there is a singular response.  It doesn\'t resolve the problem (and one can easily make the case about proportionality of injury to humans vs. horses), but it changes the conversation.  There are many obvious reasons in terms of overall popularity why the NFL has a decided advantage over the racing industry with its ability to keep criticism at bay, but horse racing\'s inability to present a coordinated response to this problem digs its grave even deeper.

[Al Caught Up]

Amen to that.

[jerry]

How could there be when almost all horses in North America race on Lasix?

[Rich Curtis]

\"one can easily make the case about proportionality of injury to humans vs. horses\"

Forget about humans. Add everything up and trace everything to its source, and one can easily make the case that football treats animals much worse than horse racing does.