McPeek Got F&#KED Yesterday. Inside Job.

[johnnym]

Help me understand?
These vets have prodded these horses for days.
They asked Saffie for all test results, scans etc and he produced them with no issues.
Then magically at post time they say no go and that’s supposed to pass the eye test?
To this eye it looks like they were after that horse from the beginning.

[TGJB]

They’re terrified of having a horse break down on national TV. After what happened at Saratoga a couple of years ago, on Fox, its hard to fault them.

[Roman]

One horse breaking down is one to many IMO. It sucks to have your horse scratched by the vet, but the data supporting the scratches, is pretty much hard to argue against.

How many horses have been scratched and never raced again, or where off for an extended period of time after a scratch.

I have no problem with the vets erring on the side of caution. Isn\'t the horse supposed to come first no matter what?

[Boscar Obarra]

You\'d think some folks just got off the boat , and horse racing is a mystery to them.

  Vet sees something a little suspect in the morning but not enough to force a scratch.  Thinks, will see how he comes to the track a day or many hours later after the usual warmups.

  Warms up and same or another vet still doesn\'t like what they see. Favoring a leg, not striding out, whatever.   This is a Grade 1 on National TV , not a MNR 4000 claimer.

  Scratched.   I thought this is how the games been played for the last 100+ years.

[Silver Charm]

So are to the point where we need to start handicapping the Vets? Ask anyone who is a Professional Gambler that is part of a heavy wagering syndicate and bets Pro Football.

The Kansas City Chiefs had never lost a game where Clay Martin was Lead Official. Certain NBA Refs the game almost always goes OVER. They call more Fouls. Professionals study this. If one Vet eyeballs more scratches than the others then that\'s important info if you are playing multi race wagers. While some of this sounds ridiculous that is where we are at. NO ONE KNOWS the standards or the rules. Its one mysterious mans judgement.....

[Roman]

Never bet a Reploe horse in the future wagers?

Grande still has not made it back to the races, trained by Todd Pletcher. Repole said he was fine to race.

White Abarrio has soundness issues, bad feet. I am not a vet, nor pretend to be. If the vets are not to be trusted, who should make the call to scratch an unsound horse. The connections are biased, I want to believe the vets are not.

What should have been done? Let the horse run because the connections think the horse is sound. I like to think that the vets speak for the horses.

[johnnym]

I don’t think anyone in their right minds ever wants to ever see a horse break down.

Anyone listen to the reason the Japanese horse was scratched? If I heard correctly pretty weak.
I saw a German horse this week every time he walked his left rear leg went straight up. That action was ok, that’s who the horse is and thank goodness he came home safe.

My point is don’t make these owners and trainers jump thru hoops to show medical record after medical record. Gamblers take time to handicap etc etc etc only to say “I don’t like”.
We deserve a reason not an opinion.
And thur all that sorry to say they still had one break down.

[Roman]

That horse Goliath has a condition called stringhalt. War of Will had the same funky gait at a walk. I know it looks bad, but they run fine with it, and is not a factor in horses breaking down.

I just don\'t know what the answer is. The health records & treatment of all horses should be public just like in Hong Kong.

Tamara was scratched and is another horse with large gaps between starts. Obviously has some issues.

Plus medication withdraw. Any permissible treatments wearing off. I am more upset about not knowing what the horse was treated with, and why, than the horse being scratched.

The owners & trainers need to sign a disclosure agreement and let us see every thing.

[Boscar Obarra]

I just watched the recent work/gallop by White .....

  100% not right.

  I went back and looked at previous works.   Nothing like this .

  Maybe biased after the fact, but I don\'t think so

  Even the hosts here in the vid thought he was not moving \'typically\' but dismissed it as noise

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7wYdh6Ijdk

[Roman]

https://paulickreport.com/news/ray-s-paddock/letter-to-the-editor-regulatory-vets-protect-horses-and-racings-social-license-to-operate

[johnnym]

Watched the video.
To my eyes I agree definitely not the smoothest looking in the rear.
Then again I have no other gallop videos to compare this to.
We agree on it should be transparency for all.

Good luck
John

[Boscar Obarra]

I looked at a few others,  he didn\'t move like that

 I doubt any GR 1 winners present that way pre race.

[Fairmount1]

From strictly a handicapping POV, after WA\'s KyDerby effort, I have always taken the position that he can only produce his best efforts for Saffie Joseph at Gulfstream.  In fact, he can only win at GP according to the Saffie trained PP\'s.  He was a terrible 2nd choice purely as a handicapper.  

Dutrow took the horse to heights SJ couldn\'t achieve with him.  That said, Dutrow stated clearly while training him that the horse needs a lot of time in between starts (read between the lines why that may be true and I\'m not being coy here).  

I applaud the owners for keeping the horse in training as the game needs stars to continue to run.  Unfortunately, he isn\'t even close to the same horse in the hands of Saffie as he was in Rick\'s for that Whitney and Classic double.  And when Rick couldn\'t get him to run well following that Classic win and Saffie has only won in friendly F L A since, there surely are some issues for the vets to have their antennas up and the horse on their radar to avoid the result JB described.

[johnnym]

If the vets would release a statement similar to this in some manner along with releasing/showing the work out videos that Oscar posted then at least we have something to hang our hats on.
Pletcher on Byk today had some comments regarding the vet situation.

Moving on.
Good Luck.
John

[P-Dub]

Silver Charm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So are to the point where we need to start
> handicapping the Vets? Ask anyone who is a
> Professional Gambler that is part of a heavy
> wagering syndicate and bets Pro Football.
>
> The Kansas City Chiefs had never lost a game where
> Clay Martin was Lead Official. Certain NBA Refs
> the game almost always goes OVER. They call more
> Fouls. Professionals study this. If one Vet
> eyeballs more scratches than the others then
> that\'s important info if you are playing multi
> race wagers. While some of this sounds ridiculous
> that is where we are at. NO ONE KNOWS the
> standards or the rules. Its one mysterious mans
> judgement.....

KC is 6-0 and 3-3 ATS with Martin, one of those wins a squeaker against an awful Raiders team as a DD favorite. The Chiefs have been great, the Raiders have been shit. A 6 game sample with the far better team beating the shitty one 6 straight isn\'t significant.

Your NBA assertion isn\'t close to accurate. There isn\'t one NBA Ref that \"almost always goes OVER\". Yes, some have Over or Under tendencies. Not one of them is anywhere close to almost always.

Are referee stats useful?? Sure they are, I have a few in my database. But they play a smaller role than people think