Is Zito a TGraph Guy?

[Chuckles_the_Clown2]

Quote Nick:

\"Did you see his race in the Clark? He acted up for about three minutes behind the gate, dropped about 25 lengths behind the field, then still finished strong enough to beat Perfect Drift and be second behind Saint Liam,\" said Zito. \"His last two races were great but I don\'t want to rush him back because I DONT WANT HIM TO BOUNCE (emphasis added) and it\'s a long year.\":

http://www.drf.com/news/article/61760.html


TGJB mentioned something last spring also about \"micro managing\" for peak efforts and I think if you look at TCE, Euro and Bird thats precisely what Nicky was doing. Fate intervened with TCE in the Derby and his career ending injury kinda robbed him of the chance to demonstrate more. I think the Blue Grass was his last victory, but it was a helluva victory. Bad tracks and an unobservant Bailey put the kabosh on Bird\'s spring, but he proved he was handled well  until he went bad in the Classic. Euro had plenty of potential and pre preps I really thought he was Nicky\'s best, but with the illness, who knows what kind of horse the owner got back.

Interesting, I think Nicky is reading TFigs, if not he should be.

CtC



Post Edited (01-01-05 09:30)

As far as I\'m concerned Zito is the most overated trainer on the planet. I can never tell when any of his horses are going to run well. Most of my friends feel the same way. I wouldn\'t be surprised if Zito has no clue either. He won a few big races and now he gets some good horses to work with. Occasionally they fire big shots out of nowhere. I don\'t think it has anything to do with his skill. I think those same horses would be just as good or better and certainly more consistent in competent hands.



Post Edited (01-03-05 13:44)

[Chuckles_the_Clown2]

I don\'t know. Bill Parcells always boiled down how good a team was by how many games they won. Theres something to be said for winning. Nicky won the Blue Grass, the Belmont, the Travers. He\'s been winning through other \"icons\" slumps. Maybe not on a par with Frankel or some of the phenoms, but I think its hard to argue with his long term success. (Don\'t ask McInvgal, Eurosilvers owner or a few other though.) Its a tough game unless you got Steve Allday on your side.

It\'s hard to argue with success. Zito is probably going to wind up in the hall of fame. I guess I have unique standards.

I am impressed by trainers that develop their horses slowly without burning them out or running them past their peak. I like when they spot their horses well and back off experiments immediately if they don\'t work out. I especially like when their horses hold their form and consistently fire close to their best shot as they are improving. This tells me the trainer is in touch with his horse\'s ability and physical condition at all times and has the animal\'s best interests at heart.

I haven\'t cashed a bet on a Zito horse since the 70s (I really can\'t remember one). I believe he\'s had plenty of very good horses, but they rarely fire when I believe they are spotted well and they often hit peaks when I think they aren\'t spotted well. This pattern is highly consistent with trainers that most of us would agree aren\'t very competent. The difference is that most incompetent guys don\'t have a barn full of talented horses to try to develop.

Maybe I\'m being too tough on him.

[Silver Charm]

Zito is a guy who is good in certain spots and terrible in others. Not much of a grass trainer and doesn\'t do well with fillys.

But he can get SOME three year olds cranked up for the big ones and will pick his spots for the Zito POP something as a handicapper that can drive you crazy.

All that aside, Zito is one of the nicest, classiest and most humble people in the game. That legacy will go further in my book than any the Triple Crown Races he has won.

[Chuckles_the_Clown2]

He hasn\'t had a bunch of good fillies, thats true. He did win the Breeders Cup Juvenile Fillies with one that I did pretty well on in exotics. Storm Song I think.

I agree he\'s a spot picker. You have to get a feel for what his intention is. I will admit, he can break them down. Theres not many that are gentle on horses. I like Shug and I think Baffert generally knows when to stop on them too. But anyone playing the game at the highest level is gonna break horses down. Some do it a little more than others and Zito has had some bad luck at times. I think he broke a whole stable down one year at Hallandale. He has a good old New York boy attitude, but he\'s clever. Other than Lukas and Baffert who can exceed his Triple Crown accomplishments?

Silver Charm wrote:

> Zito is a guy who is good in certain spots and terrible in
> others. Not much of a grass trainer and doesn\'t do well with
> fillys.
>
> But he can get SOME three year olds cranked up for the big ones
> and will pick his spots for the Zito POP something as a
> handicapper that can drive you crazy.
>
> All that aside, Zito is one of the nicest, classiest and most
> humble people in the game. That legacy will go further in my
> book than any the Triple Crown Races he has won.
>
>

[miff]

Zito shows up at triple crown time very often.There are MANY trainers with high priced/well bred stock who almost never show up.

Zito has a definite \"signature\" when his horses are ready to throw one. Normally, a no try the first time out, followed by a sharp work.I\'ve caught him many times.No trainer who is \"clueless\" can dance the big dances consistently,IMO.

That aside,Nick is a classy New York kinda guy.

He does seem to be an especially nice guy - which is a lot more important than if he can get one of his horses to fire on the day I think it\'s spotted well. :-)

[Chuckles_the_Clown2]

I think he\'s humble and shrewd.

Buckram Oak took Eurosilver off him and he was gracious in explaining to the press the decision. He still trains for Buckram so its not like he fell out with Fustok. Euro was \"sick\". I\'m still not sure what happened with him. But a sickness sure seems hard to attribute to a trainer. So, maybe theres more to that story. Anyone know?

CtC

[Silver Charm]

I really do not know either but he also took the high road when Mattress Mac let him go. That is his style, he took the hit.

Euro fired one of those big Kentucky POPS that seem to happen a lot. His was in the Lands End and he was not the frist one to do it there either. The race may have knocked him out for a while and if the horse was being taken off the Triple Crown trail then maybe Zito wasn\'t the best trainer for the horse from that point on. Someone like Mott perhaps, who Buckram also uses.

[gowand]

I also don\'t think I have ever cashed a ticket on Zito but I have to say he is one of the guys I really root for.  Most of my on-track experiences are from Saratoga and I have aleays been impressed with the way Zito interacts with crowd.

[Chuckles_the_Clown2]

TGJB,

The consensus here is that Zito is a first class guy that EVERYBODY likes. What better emissary for T-Graph? Maybe some complimentary TFigs can get him saying all the good things that cheater says for the dishonest guys. Maybe \"good guy\" Zito will even say them in the winners circle.  

He\'s already got them doesnt he?

lol

CtC

[TGJB]

All right, I\'m back in the office after several days losing golf balls.

I suspect that Zito\'s comment was just a general thing-- a lot of sheets jargon has crept into the vernacular, partly due to Post Time in the early 90\'s. But no, he doesn\'t use us at horsemen rates-- he could be buying us off the stand, for all I know. But I don\'t think that\'s what the comment meant.