Horsemanship

[Silver Charm]

Been lots of talk on this Board over the last couple of years regarding Trainer Bobby Frankel. Most of it negative or laced with suspicion. One thing for sure after seeing the performance of Badge of Silver today, the guy can train a horse from time-to-time.

Badge of Silver has been beset by serious injuries throughout his career but has been slowly brought back to career best form and showed it today at Gulfstream. The margin was only a neck but he was clearly best and damn game to boot.

When Badge got back to the Frankel barn I\'m sure Ghostzapper hardly even rolled over in his hay but nonetheless he will make a useful substitute whenever the Big Horse stays home. Assuming Badge can stay healthy for more than three races in a row.

[Chuckles_the_Clown2]

SC,

What I like about you is that you rarely have a disparaging word to say about someone. You\'re right, he won again. I can\'t help but point out he beat Commentator who looks like a sprinter now. He beat an off form Purge and he beat a snakebit can\'t get up to save his life, firesale, best figure running negative 1, Dynever and he did it as the favorite at 2-1. They could run this Grade III twenty more times and Badge could win it every time and I still would not take those odds in the circumstances.

I think he\'s proven that Bobby has gotten him back. Maybe theres more to come, but I dont think we saw enough today to plan deposits.

[Silver Charm]

Rarely have a disparaging word to say about someone?

Say what!!!

The Paulie Man was barking out over the LOUD Speaker this was a Grade I Field. I don\'t know I thought he ran good and the trainer had him ready and got the most out of him. Thats all. I\'m not the unabashed Frankel basher as some others are, I actually like him. He paid his dues, seems a little camera shy and does seem to get some real unusually fast numbers out of a lot of his horses. HMMMMMMM.

By the way if Stronach\'s vision comes true the place (ie Gulfstream) will be all right. The track itself looks extremely banked and fair. The Turf course is as wide as a driving range. The setup right now is intolerable, the people are trying hard, no fault of theirs, but otherwise you feel like you are at a cattle roping contest.

With no quiet place to sit, relax and handicap.

[jimbo66]

CtC,

I think you got it wrong.

Silver Charm definitely has an occasional disparaging word to say.  I had some directed at me last year and still feel the wounds.....  

Jim

[Silver Charm]

Don\'t take it personal Jimbo.

And for that matter anybody else.

[Chuckles_the_Clown2]

meanie

[NoCarolinaTony]

SC,

I agree with you SC (for whatever that\'s worth) and also thought BOS ran a very strong race considering he was pressing the pace  of that sprinter and then faced pressure the entire stretch. Was not surprised that the horse Prado was on ran big either or that Purge ran another clunker. Frankel usally has them ready to run (no matter what he is suspected of doing). So I guess until he\'s indicted, we have to consider the man\'s horses each race he\'s got one entered.

NCTony

IMO, this was a Grade 2 field. Though with Purge not running at his best level and Commentator disappointing a bit, I don\'t think it was as strong a Grade 2 field as I thought going in.

[Michael D.]

i agree class. purge never fired, and the post forced santos to pull dynever to way back, probably hurting is chances of running a top. the other two favorites are probably better going a bit shorter. i don\'t think this was a real strong race, not a real strong grade 2 type race anyway. i will bet against the winner next out if he catches a strong field going 9f (i think he would get chewed up if if he tried the Donn).



Post Edited (01-10-05 17:17)

[Chuckles_the_Clown2]

Michael, there was no St. Elmo or Rim or GZ or Peace Rules (funny two more i\'m mentioning are Frankels isn\'t it) or even Funny Cide or Newfoundland in there. This was a good race but not a big figure race. What is TGraph gonna rely upon to grade it? The 1st race 14k claimers?  They were negative 1 runners and they ran about that. Dynever did what he had to do to get close, save ground. But he lost positions doing it and couldn\'t pick them all up. It would have been worse to give ground. BOS could improve. He might stay 10 marks next time. Thats the nature of Frankel\'s cheating.

[Michael D.]

CtC,
do me a favor. make me a list and tell me which trainers cheat, and give me your reasons for knowing. you have absolutely no idea, but it will be amusing.

[Chuckles_the_Clown2]

The games most serious cheater is undoutedly Robert Frankel.

It began in 2000, post Triple Crown with Aptitude. Thats when he found the edge. The performance figures of his horses escalated suddenly and though horses have gotten faster in the same time frame I see a distinct speed jump in the Frankels. After Aptitude, Lido Palace followed, followed in short order by Megadeath, (I can never spell his name), then Peace Rules and Empire Maker, then Ghostzapper and now Badge of Silver. Theres others I can\'t recall off the top of my head and I\'m not even factoring sprinters. But I will say Frankel got more out of the five year old Albedaran or whatever his name was than was really in the tank.  

Trainers do not get runs of good horses like this. Lukas had some good runs years back but he had more good horses than any trainer has ever had. He rarely picked another horse up from another trainer and moved him forward. Criminal Type perhaps, but that was one that matured a little later in my estimation. Frankel is picking many of his up as hand me downs. You do the math.

Theres no doubt in my mind Frankel is cheating. None whatsoever. He\'s got a new vet and the item is called titration. If I understand it correctly, its bloodpacking. Saturation of oxygen.

The other item thats been going around is \"milkshakes\". A milkshake is ingested and the compound is chemically: NaHCO3. Theres three molecules of oxygen at the end of that compound. Those broken down molecules are getting into the horses blood.

I don\'t know every trainer that is cheating, but theres others besides Frankel that I know are. I think you know one I\'ve mentioned. Others besides that one, many know. I\'m not going to mention every trainer I know is jumping horses because a couple are not well known and are on my play list.

Theres a problem here. It can be an opportunity, but if you dont recognize either you\'re in a tough spot.

CtC

[Michael D.]

so frankel uses titration, but you are not sure if you understand it correctly? and you mention \"milkshakes\", but you have no idea if frankel uses them on his horses. pretty solid evidence there. i have no idea if frankel is cheating or not, but if i were to accuse him of defrauding the entire industry (like you are), i would bring a bit more evidence to the table. don\'t get me wrong, i think focusing on the subject is a good thing, and will only help get things fixed quicker, but when you say that frankel is DEFINITELY cheating, and when you say that smarty was on illegal drugs last year, i think you are going a bit too far without enough info to back up your accusations.

[Silver Charm]

>Lukas had some good runs years back but he had more good horses than any trainer has ever had. He rarely picked another horse up from another trainer and moved him forward.

Lets see Criminal Type won Horse of the Year. Twilight Agenda ran second in the Breeders Cup Classic. Slew City Slew almost took down Alysheba in the Meadowlands Cup, before he won the BC Classic. Can you say Steinlen.

Spain won the BC Distaff and about $4 Million, Azeri pretty much fell off the face of the earth this year on her way to an Eclipse.

And Thunder Gulch all he did was win the Fla Derby, Ky Derby, Belmont, and Travers on his way to the 3YO Eclipse.

There are others but my memory is slipping.

[Silver Charm]

I just remembered, Gulch.

That about SIX Eclipse winners and one Horse of the Year after he took the horses from someone else. Maybe not Spain only because he happened to train Surfside.



Post Edited (01-11-05 06:59)