Horsemanship

[richiebee]

I would love to see the vet of record
listed in the program.

 Five or six (?) years ago a vet whose name
escapes me got into a protracted pissing
contest with NYRA. I think part of the
dispute ended up in court. During the
time this vet was barred, his main
client,Gasper Moschera, fell off
the face of the Earth and eventually
retired. The two young trainers who
came out from Moschera\'s shedrow- Odintz
and Mitch Friedman, who were probably
using the same vet, hit rough times.
Was there more to this story?

 While we are on the program, how about
getting a little more information on
more subtle equipment changes. I would
like to know when a trainer is adding a figure 8,replacing a nose band with a shadow
roll, changing bits or types of blinkers
etc. Standardbred programs
contain this info. There is probably
someone out there who is collecting
this info, why can\'t we get it?

 Wednesday we will see what Mr. Passero, track super at NYRA, is capable of.
With the heavy rain and rising
temperatures, I think there
is a great chance of cancellation or
abbreviated card, though I hope not.



Post Edited (01-12-05 00:29)

[twoshoes]

Dr. Galvin I presume...

On March 27, 1998, plaintiff, Dr. Michael Galvin (\"Dr.Galvin\"), a professional equine veterinarian specializing in thoroughbred racehorses, was present in Barn 38 at the Belmont Park racetrack, treating horses that were under the supervision of trainer Mitch Friedman (\"Friedman\"). At that time, George Cary, an investigator for the New York State Racing and Wagering Board, reportedly observed Dr. Galvin \'tubing\' [FN1] a horse Cary identified as \'Hip Wolf\', presumably for the purpose of improperly administering performance- enhancing drugs. Following an investigation, in April, 1998, the three track officials who supervise Belmont Park, known as the Stewards, suspended Dr. Galvin\'s license for sixty days, the maximum penalty they could impose. That suspension was stayed, however, pending referral of the matter for review by the Racing and Wagering Board.

FN1. \'Tubing\' is the use of a plastic tube inserted through the nostril for the administration of drugs directly into the stomach of a horse.

[JohnTChance]

The aggressive vet known as \"White Mercedes\" used to do work for trainer Ronny Werner for a brief time, but when one of Werner\'s nice horses broke down, Werner fired him. Last year when the underachieving BADGE OF SILVER changed hands to Frankel, and the animal changed to the care and modus operandi of White Mercedes, do you think there was something of a revenge factor there for White Mercedes?

By the way, White Mercedes finished 1, 3, 4 in the Hal\'s Hope. He vets BADGE OF SILVER, CONTANTE (who finished 3rd at 21-1) and ADDED EDGE (4th at 14-1). Hey, let\'s not stop there. White Mercedes also vets SARATOGA COUNTY, whose 5-wide turn, zoom rally won the G3 Mr. Prospector Saturday in what obviously was a lifetime top. What? Something on the order of a -3 ThoroGraph? He also worked on LIMEHOUSE! So White Mercedes was the exacta.

It\'s an easier game if you know which horses have had their oil changed by White Mercedes.

[Chuckles_the_Clown2]

Yes....yes. I can see it now.

Twilight, perhaps the black of night on the backside. The grooms have finished rubbing the runners from the day and the last of the four legged beasts of wind have settled into their stalls for the night. Some of the backside folks have a beer or a soda in their hand and they are passing time and shooting the breeze, maybe admiring with a smile the derriere of a two legged filly. A horse whinnies somewhere within the wooden  shedrow and the sound of the horse carries softly to those gathered, like the gentle sound of the sweetest violin in the most expert of hands. All is right in this world and then suddenly a car\'s headlights pierce the serenity of the evening and the vehicle stops near the top trainer\'s stalls. A quick walking man moves from the vehicle and is greeted by an employee. He enters the stall with a small bag and reappears outside again after only a few minutes and then he is gone. No one would ever know he was there at all, but for the gathered help and the departing red glow of tail lights from the White Mercedes.

[asfufh]

As the White Mercedes emerges from the mist engulfing the still track and turns left on to A1A, Spenser eases the Toronado\'s motor to life, smiles at Hawk, and pulls onto the highway.....

[Catalin]

John T:

I take you at your word, but Magic Man\'s work with Dream Weaver is news to me.  I had heard of a few new clients he picked up this winter  but wasn\'t aware Saratoga County was now under his care.

[Chuckles_the_Clown2]

Catalin wrote:

 I had heard of a few new clients he picked up
> this winter  but wasn\'t aware Saratoga County was now under his
> care.

And thats the problem. The only way the average guy thats not tight with the backside can identify vet influence is to review race results and deliberate sudden moveups. If the vet was listed in the p.p.s I doubt I would be a big vet wagerer and I still would have passed or lost on the Hal\'s Hope, but I would have had Contante in my drafted bet.

Is it the trainer or is it the vet?
And assuming \"good work\" by both is important to a horses efforts, the public has a right to know who the horse\'s trainer and vet are.

CtC

[NoCarolinaTony]

CtC,

You asked the question I\'ve been wondering about for quite some time, ( unless your hooked up on the backside), how do we who wager from States like NC and don\'t have backside conections get the info on vets? Any suggestions?

And is the White Mercedes the guy I think it is?

Anyone?

NCTony

[Chuckles_the_Clown2]

Tony,

Thats a tough one. When I was learning handicapping, I was given advice to apply for a job on the backside. My problem is horses don\'t like me. I\'m dead serious. They get spooky around me. I had good contacts in Florida though and was much more in tune to the backside. I had free admission every year to Hialeah and a stable pass and sat in a couple trainers boxes. I still get an occasional heads up but thats about it.

You can meet the trainers in the clubhouse after the races. Some of them like to have a drink. I\'m not shy and I told them honestly what I thought about their horses and if you\'re sincere and they see you each Saturday after the race or in the paddock they get to know you. Trainers can learn from handicappers too. Spotting biases and sharing them and the like. Ascertaining post and pace issues. Although local trainers generally know everything.  None of which applies to you in North Carolina...lol

I\'m in the same category you are. I mean you\'re here. Thats a big plus. White Mercedes is apparently Steve Allday. John Chance just spoke volumes in this thread. Dale Romans is a suspect. Todd Pletcher is a suspect. I will now monitor Stanley Hough. I was not aware of that. Weaver is an up and comer, but to my eye Saratoga County is the only horse of his looking odd, so I\'ll reserve judgement.

CtC

I think you guys may be hurting yourself by being overly preoccupied with vets, drugs and cheating. If you mentally get the point where you think every time your horse loses it\'s probably because of drugs, milkshakes, vets, steroids etc... it will ruin your handicapping.

The vast majority of the time, if a trainer has been cheating it is already reflected in the horse\'s past performances. So most of the time you don\'t even have to worry about it.  

What you want to do is key in on trainer changes.

As soon as a horse switches to a so called super trainer (or away from him) you have to be on guard for sudden dramatic improvement/decay in performance that could extend for several races. Once the horse has been in the barn for awhile the new drug enhanced performance level is in the figures.

You might also want to monitor if a specific super trainer suddenly puts out a couple of short priced duds. That could indicate a problem in the barn (even a legit one like all his horses came down with a cough and missed a few days of training) or a vet change.



Post Edited (01-13-05 19:31)

[Chuckles_the_Clown2]

I agree with part of your statement CH. I\'ve always believed you can factor the cheating. I\'ve been doing it. You can make money on the cheaters in a couple ways. Being in on the jump up period or taking a stand against the juice boys when the crowd pounds down the odds below acceptable. The latter will always result in scores because theres a lot of ways to lose a race and that includes a juiced horse. Frankel\'s loss in the DeFrancis for example.

If its good handicapping for the bettor to factor trainer changes, it has to be good handicapping for the bettor to factor vet changes. Frankel is using Allday, I want to know when Johnny come lately switches to him or as you indicated when Ronnie Werner fires him.

One last little point. Its a possibility that Alldays trainers dont know precisely what he\'s doing.

CtC



Post Edited (01-13-05 17:02)

[marcus]

I wonder at times how much happenchance factors into the equation for so many big name trainers .

Lukas for example alway\'s seems to have faster (and better ) horse\'s sitting around which he doesn\'t appear to pay serious attention too .

Baffert has a couple horse\'s running at Santa Anita saturday ( both of which I like ) and his Indian Country fit\'s in that race pretty well it seems due in part to having not over raced the horse as a 3 year old and having had passed on alot of  races last year with that horse .

I\'m actually begining to belive that Baffert might know what he is doing and perhap\'s has seen into the \" future of racing \" a bit with a more natural patient approach  - though he\'d be alot smarter to hire you on to work with him in managing his barn and putting together the y2 megadynasty ...

[jbelfior]

I still want to know what happens to these super trainers when they get to Saratoga. Is it the mountain air? The history, pride, and mystique of the racetrack?

What is it about Saratoga that causes a Mr. Dutrow to train at 4% or an Iwinski to train at 6%? Or Bobby Frankel to go on 19 race losing streaks and look like a mere mortal??

Hmmm, so what is it about the Spa that brings these super trainers back down to earth???


Good Luck,
Joe B.

[richiebee]

Part of the reason may be preponderance
of Maiden Special Weight/ 2YO/ Turf
racing. The prototypical supertrainers
(your guys term, not mine)at NYRA over
the years (Moschera, Ferriola, Dutrow Jr)
have not generally had too many horses that
fit Saratoga racing, and traditionally
have not had owners who care too much
about winning up there.



Post Edited (01-18-05 12:16)

[Michael D.]

joe,
i could be wrong, but isn\'t the theory here that allday is responsible for frankel\'s success? isn\'t allday also the vet for pletcher, the most successful trainer ever at the spa? (and no, i am not defending any of the names you mentioned, i have no idea what they do).