Gill quitting?

[MO]

http://www.bloodhorse.com/

I can relate to the Rickman story, except for one thing - One day I stood up to him.

One day sitting in the press box, Rickman comes over to me and says \"Did you make this here morning line?\" I said \"Yep\". He says \"Well, you can\'t handicap worth a damn. You got my horse favored in this here race, but you don\'t pick him to be in the money!\"
\"well\", I said \"that\'s because your horse will be favored and will be off the board\".

\"Well how do you know that?\" he replied. I said \"I got the real tool for picking winners right here. It\'s called Thorograph\".

\"Ahh, that\'s a lotta BS, I can handicap better than you!\"
\"Oh yeah?\" I said. \"Anytime you wanna go head up with me, horse for horse, race for race, I\'ll bury you!\"

Well, his horse was favored and ran 6th in a field of 7. He came up to me after the race and begged me to teach him how to pick winners using Thorograph. I agreed, and 2 minutes into the 1st lesson, he threw up his hands and said \"I ain\'t got time for all that BS. I need a winner right now!\".

[Bally Ache]

The DRF ran a front page profile of Gill a couple of months ago.  I sent them a letter saying he would get out of the business (although I didn\'t think it would be so soon).

This is what you see time & time again in the PP\'s for his horses.  He claims a horse for $50-80,000, he\'s had it for 3-4 months, it\'s done nothing, the horse is in for $15-20,000 today.

How can this man not be losing buckets of money?  

They come and they go.

[Chuckles_the_Clown2]

Amazing story. Rather than quote it, below is the link. For those worried about integrity in Modern Horseracing its a must read:

http://news.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=27929


Apparently, Gill overcame his banishment from Delaware Park, as some here thought he would, settling his lawsuit with the track. However, upon entering his first horses, the Racing Secretary, Joseph Stalin, errrrm...Sam Abbey ordered them scratched for colicking. They hadn\'t colicked of course, Abbey just wasn\'t gonna let them run and of course they didn\'t.

Thereafter the Delaware Racing Commissioner, John Wayne, (Why are they all tyrants and cowboys in this story?), indicated that Abbey had an issue with Gills trainer and wasn\'t going to allow the trainer on the grounds. If that was the case, why didn\'t they just notify the trainer of that rather than request a bogus colick scratch form?

Gill of Arc\'s trainer (Vasquez) stated:
 
\"I have a clean record and was never told I was barred from Delaware Park.\"

Apparently, Ray Paulick, from The Bloodhorse contacted Abbey and was given this response:

\"Abbey refused to discuss the scratching of the Vazquez-trained horses. \"I\'ve had enough of Mike Gill,\" he said. \"You need to talk with (general manager) Bill Fasy about this.\" Fasy did not return a call from The Blood-Horse\"

So Joseph Stalin....errrrrr Sam Abbey stated initially that it was a colick scratch, then John Wayne clarified that it was a trainer personality clash and then in the end Abbey stated it was still an issue with Gill of Arc even though a settlement had been reached with him. Settlements are using precise legal agreements. What is Delaware Park up to?

Gill has done some things to draw some ire. He went on winning streaks that were unprecedented. His win ratio was incredulous. Perhaps worst of all, he claimed claiming horses. If someone took the time to calculate Frankel\'s and Pletcher\'s strike rate in Grade I\'s over those same years, it would be interesting to see whose training record was most quizzical.

At a time when the industry\'s integrity is under scrutiny for fraud, how can Delaware Park conduct itself in this manner? Another track off the list of this bettors wagering sites until they get their act together.

Racing is desperately in need of some good people. Maybe good people don\'t go far in that game.

This is a story that the DRF should have the courage to cover. Its a story about fairness and equity. Its a story about abuse of power. Where is the industry\'s watchdog?



Post Edited (05-03-05 11:15)

[xichibanx]

He admits he loses money...

XichibanX

[richiebee]

Many times at Aqueduct this winter, watching the four and five horse fields, listening to the announcements of cancelled tris and supers, I thought of NYRA\'s exclusion of Michael Gill and how foolish it was.

Reserve judgement, though-- Ernie Paragallo announced he was leaving the game last Fall and we still get a daily dose of the faux- Phipps black and red Paraneck silks...

[davidrex]

     Chuckie,

your right on about drf ignoring him.

Maybe T.V.G. will have a wake in Gill\'s honor.

If he\'s really serious[doubt it] it will absolutely cripple MD.racing... for he accounts for a very large herd that already occupies small fields.

     PARTYpokerON !

[Bull]

Look around you, do you see all of that blood on the floor? That\'s my heart bleeding for Mike Gill. I am glad he\'s quitting. Maybe that will force Maryland to shut down since he represents almost 10% of the starters there. I understand that he was not treated very well at Delaware, and yes Rickman is not the greatest man of all time, but Gill is one of the last guys I feel sorry for. He\'s the last guy that should be claiming foul play.

I never understood why he tried to play the role of the victim against a bully bureaucracy. The fact of the matter is that he is a cheater who has been caught numerous times, and I am sure the controversy doesn\'t stop there (severed legs, track lawsuits, calling out trainers, repeated obnoxious comments). So a few guys make some questionable decisions, and all of a sudden I\'m supposed to feel bad for him. As the saying goes, \"there\'s nothing better than cheating a cheater.\" All the crap he put this game through the last few years, and he cries when he gets a little of his own medicine. Hey Mike, don\'t let the door hit you on the way out, punk!!!

-Bull

[NoCarolinaTony]

They are more worried about how racing might affect the slots turnout. Slots is where they action is not racing.

NC Tony

[Chuckles_the_Clown2]

Bull you\'re for cleaning up the game? Thats a reasonable perspective. Is it just owners the sport should get tough upon or should the whole industry be held to a higher standard? And if the whole industry isn\'t going to be held to a higher standard why just the owners?

Its true Gill did have a substance positive as a trainer and some of his trainers have had substance positives too. Should Dick Dutrow be barred from the game on the positives he just settled upon? Shouldn\'t Santa Anita and Magna be shut down on their complicity to defraud the public in the Sweet Cat affair? (Provided it can be proven in a court of law or administrative hearing) In regard to administrative hearings, shouldn\'t the California Horse Racing Board be purged over cronieism, incompetence and breach of the public trust?

Lastly, did you know the leg for the euthanized horse in question was recovered and tested by the State of Florida and that no illegality was determined to have been committed?

These men have a right to earn a living and not be discriminated against upon mere suspicion and theres no fairness in the facilities being even more crooked than the guys trying to make a buck in a tough game. If they catch them red handed toss them all out. Until they can prove it, doesnt it make more sense to ask those saying an individual is bad to at least come to the table with clean hands themselves?

[Bally Ache]

Chuckles

You can\'t turn this man into a victim.  If you want to address the problems afflicting racing that\'s fine, but don\'t use him as your poster boy.  He\'s a bully and a braggart.  He thought he could overwhelm this game, as others have tried before him.

It isn\'t working, and it isn\'t going to work. This can\'t be his fault so he looks for others to blame.  And you buy into it.


If you can\'t evaluate people and situations better than this, how can you hope to pick horses?

[beyerguy]

This game is starting to remind me of harness racing.  Regardless of what you think of Gill, its a sad state when a track can just ban someone for no real reason.  Either prove they cheat, or shut the hell up and let them race.  And talk about a conflict of interest?  How about this owner of the track running horses at the track, and having a say in who can and cannot race there!

The rules need to be nationalized, no more of this \"banned here, race somewhere else\" crap.

[davidrex]

The man came in as the hunter and is presently the hunted.

At the outstart he was considered a devil for claiming everyones\' stock.Some animals were taken in spite of unwritten law against such a practice [ex.track owners].

When it became clear he was an easy mark to dump a nag or re-claim at a substancial discount...the antagonism ceased.

Many good trainers from the mid-atlantic region will now be able to retire to a much better life for he never went with the top tier at any track he raced at.

His only lasting crime was the fact that when he entered this business as an owner it was to operate in a manner of a maverick.Too bad that the only folks not to forgive him were the people already holding the power.

The man is not of our ilk but we are certainly sided with him in terms of a more level playing field.

PARTYpokerON!

[Bull]

A few comments,

Chuckles, you know I am for cleaning up the game, but you should also know from previous posts that I cannot stand Mike Gill. Any chance I get to slam the guy, I will jump at it. The severed leg issue may not have had any legal ramifications, but you have to admit it drew some negative press and was definitely controversial, which was all I was saying about that situation. Plus, just because an \"authority\" told me that something was clean does not mean it actually is. I am still skeptical, as I spoke with vets at the time who told me that this practice is unheard of and should raise a red flag.

That being said, Chuckles you\'re right, this does not absolve Rickman, Abbey or any others in high racing positions of wrong doings. It just makes our problems in the sport worse. Please do not misunderstand my post, I was not defending Delaware Park, I just used this as a chance to slam Gill. Yes my post was maybe a little hostile, but Gill is just the next in a long line of cheaters who I want out of this game. If it is proven that these guys at Delaware were dishonest, then they should be dealt with also. You\'re right, everyone should be held to the same tough standards, which unfortunately do not exist.

Yes, I want to clean up the game, and that means the whole game. I am appauled at some of the stuff I read in the Bloodhorse article. It does appear that juice trainers may only be part of the problem, and we should keep an eye on all corrupt sectors of racing, not just trainers. Your last paragraph was right on, people do not deserve to be discriminated against just on suspicion. As i said, the severed leg comment was just intended to say he was controversial, not accuse him of anything.

With that in mind, Gill is still a cheater, a proven cheater, who does not deserve one ounce of sympathy. Were others at fault in this situation, yes. Should those others be dealt with, yes. Should I feel bad for Gill, hell no.

Gill was quoted in the DRF, \"All I ask for is a level playing field.\"

This coming from a guy who has been caught cheating more than once. It\'s scary to think that there are so many morons like him out there, trainers or otherwise.

Chuckles, buddy, I think we are in the same boat trying to clean up the game. We have to keep working hard, and with the last few weeks worth of corruption from the higher ups in the game, it looks like the fight has only just begun.

Now let\'s get the money this weekend guys!!!

Overlays to all and to all a good night!!!

-Bull

[Bull]

As an edit to my last reply, I put the word \"trainer\" into my post often, not to say they are the only ones at fault in juicing. Owners, such as Gill, and especially vets, all get lumped into the \"juice guy\" category along with trainers.

There\'s so many ways to corrupt this sport from multiple angles. Owners have come the forefront lately (Gill, Wygods, Ramsey).


Time to turn the attention to Louisville, and the 3-4 most potentially lucrative days on the racing calendar for savy bettors.

Best of luck to all this weekend.

-Bull

[Chuckles_the_Clown2]

Bull,

We are on the same page. That was a very well presented post.

At the hearing to bar Gill, lets just have John Wayne, Abbey, Fermin, Pletcher, Frankel, Wygod, Dutrow, Mullins, Lake, Romans, Ramsey, Canani and Rickman subjected to sanctions as well.