Lou Raffetto, Spot Tester

[LasVegasHorseplayer]

Clark,

You are right on the mark with your comments and JB is correct in that you should submit this post as a letter to the editor at one or more of the major, national racing publications.

As far as what we, the horseplayers, can do about it...I submit that a good, old-fashioned boycott would be a good place to start.

As all seasoned and disgruntled horseplayers know, without us there IS no game.

Take away the wagering dollars and there will be no million dollar yearlings sold in Kentucky every year.

There will be no Todd Pletchers and Nick Zitos with their barns full of million dollars babies,

AND there will be no BC or TC campaigns with thier million dollar purses.

United we stand, divided we fall.

You are the \"U\" in the union.

Solidarity forever!

Personally, I haven\'t wagered on a horse race since last years BC and the outcome of this years KD has only reinforced my opinion that I made the correct six months ago.

If the players feel this strongly about the current state of affairs in racing then it is time to step up to the plate and take a stand!

Or else, Jeff Mulins REALLY is right!

[TGJB]

DLF-- Again, we are not talking about winning, which can be a function of lots of things. We are talking about making horses run much faster overnight.

From the Lone Star Notes in the Fri DRF:

\"The Texas Racing Commission staff on Wednesday began discussing ways to refine testing procedures for alkalizing agents after some horses have tested positive for bicarbonates during the current program, which is being used solely to collect data...

Blood samples are drawn from every starter in two randomly selected races each card, but not labeled. Changing that protocol, however, along with other aspects of the test, is being discussed...

\'At this point, we\'re looking at what changes need to be made with the investigatory testing protocol to gather additional information to help us determine the appropriate regulatory response,\' said Flowerday\".

Here\'s a thought-- label the damn samples. And test all the horses.

[Bally Ache]

IMO Jerry couldn\'t have picked a better example.  He\'s been around for years and years but he hasn\'t been on top for years and years.  Seems to me he used to be known for winning turf races on the West Coast, often with imported horses.  Certainly he was no factor in the glamour 3 yr. old races.

Pletcher, I wouldn\'t be surprised.  But I\'m not at all sure about Dutrow.  His father was a helluva trainer, for those old enough to remember. So it\'s in his genes and he learned from a master.

My point is, if we were each to make up a list they wouldn\'t be identical by any means and it doesn\'t seem fair to paint them all with the same brush.

If, as LV Horseplayer suggests, we were to organize a boycott that would be a wonderful thing.  But you know that\'s not going to happen.  We really are taken for granted and we really are looked down upon.

I can tell you this for sure.  I\'d jump at the chance to take an IQ test against Bobby Frankel or Nick Zito just to name a couple.

TGJB,

I understand and agree with your point of view about horses moving up quickly for some of these guys (especially older claiming horses). That\'s really the tipoff.

However, some of the horses they perform miracles on are held out of action for a couple of months before returning much improved. Often they are also somewhat lightly raced or had shown early potential, but got stopped by a problem. That suggests something else could be going on.

Some of the big move ups come when there is a trainer change from a guy that was clearly not among the elite to someone that is.

Still others are lightly raced well bred horses that move up in bursts.

Not to make excuses for crooks because I probably agree with you more than I disagree, but I tend to think it might be a mistake to assume the worst just about every time a horse improves sharply for a new barn.

There are obvious differences in skill among trainers. They have different resources, help, work ethic etc... . You can\'t overlook this stuff when trying to assess why a horse might have improved. I don\'t know a darn thing about veternarians, but I\'d guess there are also \"HONEST\" differences of skill in that department also.

It just seems to me that there\'s a middle ground between those that think the game is totally out of hand and those that know there\'s a problem, but think it\'s not quite as bad as that.

[miff]

Class said,

\"Not to make excuses for crooks because I probably agree with you more than I disagree, but I tend to think it might be a mistake to assume the worst just about every time a horse improves sharply for a new barn\"


Class,

OK,how do you account for several trainers who are moving up many, many horses for many many years? Horsemanship? I think the correct word is Horseshit!!

[miff]

TGJB,


I\'ve been censored!!! Son of a $%^@!!

[TGJB]

Miff-- believe it or not, the program does that automatically. But yeah, I probably would have anyway.

miff,

>OK,how do you account for several trainers who are moving up many, many horses for many many years? Horsemanship? I think the correct word is Horse$%^@!!<

I think there are trainers that are cheating, but I think the problem is wildly overrated here.



Post Edited (05-19-05 16:39)

[jimbo66]

JB,

To be honest, I find it impossible to feel strongly about either side of this argument.  I am sure there are cheaters, but how many and how often is hard to tell from my perspective.  I would certainly agree that as a figuremaker, you have a better view to the circumstantial evidence on a day to day basis.  A question I do have is why I don\'t see the same level of concern from guys like Beyer and his group of figuremakers and the many racing guys that don\'t use either T-Graph or Sheets.  I will give you that your figures are more accurate and useful, but the type of evidence you talk about should be apparent to Beyers and other racing columnists and handicappers.

I am not saying that NOBODY else talks about it, but the intensity and the certitude of the comments is stronger here than anywhere else.

[TGJB]

Whoa there, Jimbo-- Andy not only feels strongly about the \"move-up\" question, he did a \"supertrainer\" discussion at the DRF Expo last year. He has written on the subject, but he has to deal with issues of libel and political correctness at the DRF. I have had direct personal conversations with Privman, Finley and many others about this-- I don\'t know anyone seriously involved in the GAME (and I don\'t include track operators and the old white guys in Kentucky in that group) who doesn\'t think this is a major issue. There is activity on many fronts about this right now, we\'ll see where it goes.

jimbo,

\"the type of evidence you talk about should be apparent to Beyers and other racing columnists and handicappers.\"

I know you didn\'t ask me, but I think it is apparent to them also. It\'s apparent to everyone. I think it\'s degree that is debateable.  

There\'s a difference in perception about some of the move ups.

It\'s one thing to get a 6YO horse whose lifetime best was a 5 and turn him into a 0 ten days later.

It\'s another thing to take a 4YO trained by an incompetent that showed some promise at 3 but that went bad, send him to rich man\'s farm for 3 months where he got the best treatment and care available and bring him back to the races much improved.

These are the two extremes, but if you start with an extremely cynical view you wind up with an overrated view of the problem.



Post Edited (05-19-05 17:07)

[Boscar Obarra]

\"Isn\'t it a well established fact (supported by Congressional testimony) that attempts years ago to hop horses were so unsuccessful that the tactic was abandoned and instead chalks were tranquilized and bet against?\"

  I\'ll address that. I usually don\'t like to talk about such things, but I\'m bored. And the fixers know this already, so I\'m not giving them any help, (I hope)

  1) It\'s a certainty when you stiff, hopping is not certain. It\'s easier to bet more and cash every time. Cash flow.

  2) By getting the favorite out, you are stealing all the money bet on it, probably near 1/2 the pool  (before takeout) in exotics. And you only have to touch one horse (or jockey, or both)

  3) Stiff one, hop 1 or 2 , you can own the pool with very little risk.

  4) Rinse and repeat.