By The Way...

[richiebee]

With regards to TGJB\'s rumor, I\'m wondering if the \"wealthy and successful\" owner who hired private investigators is the same owner who could get shut out at Saratoga this year after winning the Travers last year?

[Boscar Obarra]

  Sometime I wonder.

  Of course, they go hot and cold. That\'s how you take the heat off.

  But the $200 haircuts don\'t have the time or patience for that in this time of unlimited greed.

  So it\'s 100% mojo 100% of the time or close to it.

  How easy would it be for these guys to be a litle less blatent, and get away with anything they chose to, no heat , no sweat.

   Like they did for 100 years.

   Mitch Friedman was hot? I guess once every decade he\'s allowed.

[kev]

I\'m not saying what these cats are doing is ok, but then again I just deal with it and it really doesn\'t get in my of capping. Also these so called super-trainers might win at a 25% hit rate, but they will loose 75% also.

[kev]

I was just looking at the TG trainer profiles and if you look at these so-called super-trainers, that this is on TG #\'s and they don\'t hit no higher than the avg. trainer does. So you can\'t say their getting new tops of out these horses, but they have higher win %, who knows maybe its the numbers.

[Boscar Obarra]

 Kev, you don\'t get it. If there are 2 or 3 of these guys or even 1 in a race, you are not handicapping anymore, you are GUESSING who is juice on/off.

 Better and easier to guess  the next number in roullette. Free drinks too.

[HP]

Class,

Last response.

I agree with everything you say!  But why is it EVERY TIME something comes up with Pletcher, you crank up the excuse machine for him?  First it was his skill with the lightly raced stock.  Next you turned it into a thread about \"legal vs. illegal\" substances.  Now it\'s just a statistical blip based on his \"second string.\"  

Obviously there are larger issues here.  There are other trainers and OTHER medication issues.  Even the \"legal vs. illegal\" argument has its place.  But Pletcher has been CAUGHT, period (and I didn\'t even mention the dead horses like Left Bank, somebody else did).  

Why are you so eager to be an apologist for Teflon Todd?  The racing press is already filling this role nicely.  I say he\'s a cheater, and there are positives, dead horses and plenty of anecdotal evidence to confirm it (and I will include Barry Irwin\'s non-response to the Allday question here which so offended you).  Almost everything you add to this is besides the point.  

HP

[TGJB]

Richie-- nope. Different owner.

[kev]

I\'m not, maybe you, and if so then either give up the game or pass those races. I\'m not saying their not using, but I don\'t think there f\'ing up the game that much where it\'s costing people money.

[kev]

well........maybe their costing other trainers and owners money. That\'s somthing their going to have to deal with, either my busting them or just take it on the chin.

[TGJB]

Kev-- is that you posting on the other board as Toocool?

[Boscar Obarra]

 kev, thats the same argument some uniformed were making about rebaters not costing non rebaters money.

  Wrong.  Unless you are privvy to the schedule of treatments, these guys will cost you money.

  Or, maybe you are psychic.

[kev]

It could be. How could you tell all the great winner\'s I pick or my bad gramar.

[kev]

Well what do you do in those races?? Pass, play them anyways?? I think it\'s silly to say if there is 2 or 3 of these trainers in a race, and one of them happens to win and people turn around and say oh so-and-so must have been using, cause they didn\'t cash a bet is a little bit out there. What about Richard D and Sis city and Offlee Wild they both ran bad races this pass weekend. What do you say about that, oh he wasn\'t using or the horses had bad looking lines?? My main point is, if a horses line is ugly or looks like he/she might be off form I think their horses will run bad, now if just running a new top and them getting one more out of them, that might happen a bit. People should write and try things to stop these people, but how long has this been going on?? Juice trainers is not something new is it?? Nice chatting with ya BO...

[marcus]

 - At this juncture nobody really know\'s exactly what happended and to what extent the course of things has been alltered by this . If the story is true , it\'s probably a step in the right direction . Let\'s say for argument sake that what has been rumored to have happend actually did take place , then basically handicappers are faced with the same circumstances that have exsisted for a couple years now and have to be all the more sharp ( and cautious ) when ascessing a horses\'s relative chances at a given meet or race . Becouse nobody really knows whether or not a horse\'s regression ( or continued impovement ) off a forward move and/or that other horse\'s who may seem  behind the 8 ball on the development side are good indicator\'s of funny stuff going on .    

[Boscar Obarra]

 Fair questions Kev.  This is how I see it. The question of who is \'touched\' TODAY is not really knowable by YOU unless you have figured out a reliable pattern to the process. Not so easy.

 Since others KNOW who is and isn\'t touched, they can and DO bet accordingly. They have a NATURAL EDGE on you, who at best , are guessing.

 If there wasn\'t this form of CHEATING, then you would not have to cope with that, and the negative edge it implies. Thus , it hurts you.

  The argument that this is not a factor, resembles the argument that a fixed race doesn\'t matter, or whales betting with a fat rebate don\'t matter.

  It matters.