Woodward

Dutrow has Show Boat and Crafty Player entered as an entry. One or both (if he runs both) will be used to make sure Commentator doesn\'t get too easy a pace on the lead. Yet neither of them is an entry with St Liam. Something is wrong with that picture.

[jimbo66]

Lots of things are wrong with the picture.

1.  The ever smug \"move up\" Genius, Mr. Dutrow, doesn\'t need a rabbit.  Saint Liam is a very very quick horse.  He got beat in the Whitney on the square by a better horse/ride/trip/less weight.  He would have been expected by most to win the rematch, without the rabbit.  For him to blame the Whitney on the pace that Commentator set was very sour grapes.  The pace was fast and Dutrow\'s horse couldn have ran faster earlier, he is very tractable, he is not a plodder.

2.  How come the genius is being allowed by the owners of Show Boat and Crafty Player to sacrifice their horses to help some other client of Dutrow.  There is no common ownership, which is why they are not an entry with Saint Liam.  More sleaze from Dutrow.

3.  You have a 4 entry race with two rabbits.  How much worse can a grade 1 get.  They won\'t get a nickel of mine with that racing product.  I don\'t know if there are some stats out there, but the crops of horses this year seem thinner than ever before in my memory.  We had 20 horses in 4 stakes on Travers day.  The field has been \"early retired\" into such a state that there are limited good betting races/opportunities at the stakes level anymore.  The Man o War being a very notable exception this weekend.

4.  What really stinks to me is that Dutrow will likely win on Saturday and IMO he is the obvious favorite to win the BC Classic.  Yuck.

\"Saint Liam is a very very quick horse. He got beat in the Whitney on the square by a better horse/ride/trip/less weight.\"

I agree with everything you said, excpet maybe the \"better horse\" comment. :-)

#2 is the thing that really stinks about this.

[Michael D.]

they are rabbits, you don\'t need a coupling to figure that out. the problem is that they are coupling at all in that race. like sir shackleton? doesn\'t matter - you can\'t bet him. coupling has it\'s obvious advantages, but for betting purposes, it ruins far more graded races that it helps. NYRA stopped all coupling in grade 1 races a few years ago. i wonder why it\'s back.

[jbelfior]

Jimbo--

I\'ll open up a personal betting window for anyone who wants to wager on SAINT LIAM at 1 1/4 in the BC CLASSIC.

Here\'s hoping he jogs on Saturday.



Good Luck,
Joe B.

[jimbo66]

Joe B.

What are you offering at your betting window in the futures book?

He\'s got a pair of negative 6\'s.  He has multiple negative 4\'s.  

I don\'t \"love\" the horse at a 1 1/4 either, but who exactly out there will beat him?  Commentator is fast enough, but is MORE suspect at 1 1/4.  Bellamy Road had a shot, but his Travers was lousy IMO.  He ran about a \"0\".  Flower Alley is OK, but is still 4 to 5 lengths slower than Saint Liam.  A healthy and fit Afleet Alex would certainly have a great shot.  But how can he get to this race fit?  A sprint in october, then onto the classic?  Roman Ruler?  Perfect Drift?

It might be a year to look at a Euro invader, if any show up for the classic.  

We know they are rabbits, but they are rabbits that are coupled with each other without being coupled with the beneficiary of their sacrifice. There\'s going to be people out there that are going to bet this entry to win (granted not many that have any clue what they are doing). There\'s something that stinks about one owner sacrificing his horse for another vs. a single owner entering multiple horses with one being the sacrifice for the other and they are coupled.

Also, what\'s to stop owners from working out deals like this even if they use different trainers?

[Chuckles_the_Clown2]

My understanding of coupling is that a trainer can run multiple entries as long as the ownership is not common. If it is common the horses must run as an entry. The theory being owners should not be able to place bets upon information that they alone are privy to. Or in other words, its their higher priced horse that is well intended. One betting entry eliminates the shenanigans.

In Dutrows case theres seperate ownership and Dutrow is ostensibly trying to win with the dual entry. Obviously, you have to find it interesting that Goldfarb horses appear to be stone cold sprinters. I\'m guessing Dutrow will scratch one of the two at post time and go with whichever rabbit is ready for a go go effort.

Theres no way around this Woodward type of ploy unless you prohibit trainers from having more than one entry in any particular race. In that case Nick Zito would only be able to run One Kentucky Derby starter and I\'m certain he would object to that. The rules of entry help Zito sometimes, this time they work to his disadvantage. Thats the way the game goes.

You have to respect Dr. Fager types, but its silly to think you can\'t take their game to them. If Commentator is an exceptional horse he\'ll handle the additional weight and the pace contest and perhaps he can then be compared to Dr. Fager.

Don\'t bet on it.

CTC,

At least neither of the rabbits is of especially high quality.  Commentator should be able to dispose of either of them within 1/2 mile or so.  However, the way ST. Liam was getting to him last time, it\'s hard to imagine Commentator winning if they both repeat their recent efforts.  That goes double because if anything Saratoga was a little kind to speed that day and that\'s rarely the case at Belmont.  

[kev]

What\'s silly about all of this is, now that everyone knows what he is doing, why couldn\'t they just let Com. lay off the pace with ST. ?? ST use to be a front runner type and Richard said the other day he\'s trying to get him to come off the pace a bit.

[NoCarolinaTony]

Ramsey & Frankel(Stronach at Magna Track) last year sound familiar?

NC Tony

[NoCarolinaTony]

CtC,

I actually agree with you this time. If you have the $, it\'s your\'s to do as you please provided you comply with the rules. I am sure they are otherwise with NYRA under such scrutiny, they would disallow it.

NC Tony

[NoCarolinaTony]

Biancone (for Tabor) sent out a Rabbit in Derby for Bandini\'s benefit vs Bellamy, That worked well didn\'t it? How many Derby horses have run well since that race?

NC Tony

[beyerguy]

classhandicapper Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That goes
> double because if anything Saratoga was a little
> kind to speed that day and that\'s rarely the case
> at Belmont.  
>
>
>
>

I\'d have to strongly disagree with that.  Belmont is one of the most speed favoring tracks in the entire country, particularly among the higher class tracks.

Beyer,

I don\'t look at nearly as many charts as you do, but I don\'t know many horseplayers that would say Belmont is generally more speed favoring than the Aqu Inner Track, Aqu Main Track, or Saratoga (on the day of the Whitney) on average. My impression is that that\'s true of the CA tracks also because when I review various major stakes, there seems to be more suspect speed days. Not sure how you are measuring speed favoring, but I rarely give a day at Belmont an S+ rating and only occasionally an S rating. Usually, I consider the track honest other than an occasional rail bias issue. I gave out plenty of S ratings to Saratoga this year and they are more routine at the other NYRA tracks also. I did notice Churchill seeming to have a lot of BR days this year that seemed to be helping closers.