Atto Mile Day

[TGJB]

The mile and eighth race was an \"about\" distance, the other two exact miles. Leroy ran a new top, details when BC sheets come out. We actually added about 5 points to the race relative to the other mile grass race-- soft turf presumably drying out.

If anything, you could have given Leroy a little better. Big race.

[STB]

A couple of years back I read an article somewhere (DRF Charts Weekly?) positing the theory that horses who ran big over giving turf tended to run poorly more often than expected in their next starts. Can\'t remember if the author used Beyer figs and/or finish position as the reference points for what \"bad\" next out meant.
Anyway, in light of Leroi\'s Atto and possible effects on his performance in the BC, I was wondering if there is any evidence that horses who ran big new TG tops over soft turf tended to regress next out more than would normally be expected.

[Chuckles_the_Clown2]

The 6th \"Bell Canadian\" Grade II was an \"About\" distance.

My personal experience with About distances was that they were invariably longer than Exact distances. That said, I have no experience with Woodbine on that matter.

Which brings me back to the original issue of the live ground crew. Did they time the 6th and 9th approximately in line with the official time?

If they did and the run ups were not significantly different and the live ground crew noted the About distance as further than an Exact 9 marks, theres little doubt in my mind the Atto was not a terribly fast race. But, I obviously can\'t determine the mentioned variables.

It seems pretty clear the 2 yr. old grass race was slow and that time would have to be adjusted for it, however that is done at Tgraph.

My question in regard to adjustment would be how many lengths were adjusted between the 6th and 9th, if any?

Other than the times of the races, there is one other problem and that is the finishing order. This is a very questionable race.


 

Canadian BellTGJB Wrote:
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> The mile and eighth race was an \"about\" distance,
> the other two exact miles. Leroy ran a new top,
> details when BC sheets come out. We actually added
> about 5 points to the race relative to the other
> mile grass race-- soft turf presumably drying
> out.
>
> If anything, you could have given Leroy a little
> better. Big race.

When are any preliminary BC sheets coming out?

Will I be able to get them at the Yankee Clipper and/or at the track?

[Michael D.]

the winner of the 6th on otto day (a decent stakes mare, not great) once ran \"about\" 9f in 1:43 and change on the WO course. the time of the 6th on otto day also came back quick for that course. looks like those races were a tad short of 9f.

[Delmar Deb]

It was Jim Quinn who said that horses who run big over a track gradient (in DRF) of 30 or more seldom win their next out.

[Chuckles_the_Clown2]

That Woodbine course gives up some very fast numbers on dry days. The Atto Mile went in 1.32.3 the previous year. Fully 2.2 seconds faster than Leroid ran it.

It may be that after all these years that I dont fully understand \"About Distances\". (I\'m not joking) It may be that they don\'t use the electronic timer but rather hand time when the starting position is inside of the Furlong pole. That would explain the Chart for the 6th where interior calls were omitted.

However, I\'ve never seen About distances shorter than the Furlong pole for all the races I\'ve watched from the track and paid attention to the start. I\'ve also rarely seen final \"About\" times faster than \"Exact\" times.

At any rate the question I asked was straightforward enough. Did the ground crew note the About Distance inside of the furlong pole? We don\'t have to speculate unless TGraph is holding onto the information for proprietary reasons.

Would you agree with me that if the About distance is at least 9 poles upon a trend that tends to indicate the Turf course increasing in speed then Leroids race is not all that spectacular.


Michael D. Wrote:
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> the winner of the 6th on otto day (a decent stakes
> mare, not great) once ran \"about\" 9f in 1:43 and
> change on the WO course. the time of the 6th on
> otto day also came back quick for that course.
> looks like those races were a tad short of 9f.

[TGJB]

CTC-- there are some tracks where the about distance is shorter because the gate can\'t be backed all the way up. Del Mar used to run 1 1/4 on dirt that way, CRC 1 1/8th turf.

We don\'t ask our trackmen to measure \"about\" differences, and it\'s not clear whether they actually could without going out there with a tape measure. Some tracks run exact \"abouts\", like the about 7 at Kee, and for the ones on dirt we have a standard correction. Turf is different, because of the pace issues, and you end up doing it by the horses anyway, so the relationship to other races is not that big a deal. Atto day was a perfect example-- when you look at that \"about\" race, the entire range of possibilities is less than a point, and at that level the other races wouldn\'t make any difference anyway.

[Michael D.]

a frankel horse could run big in an ironman triathlon and win next out.

[Chuckles_the_Clown2]

Thx,

Calder does Turf Chute that 9 mark turf race. I never knew it was shy of 9...lol

Appreciate the explanation and have no reason to not believe the differences you are talking about probably will not amount to more than a point, give or take.

Doing it off the horses is the whole issue with the Atto. That race is troubling.


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> CTC-- there are some tracks where the about
> distance is shorter because the gate can\'t be
> backed all the way up. Del Mar used to run 1 1/4
> on dirt that way, CRC 1 1/8th turf.
>
> We don\'t ask our trackmen to measure \"about\"
> differences, and it\'s not clear whether they
> actually could without going out there with a tape
> measure. Some tracks run exact \"abouts\", like the
> about 7 at Kee, and for the ones on dirt we have a
> standard correction. Turf is different, because of
> the pace issues, and you end up doing it by the
> horses anyway, so the relationship to other races
> is not that big a deal. Atto day was a perfect
> example-- when you look at that \"about\" race, the
> entire range of possibilities is less than a
> point, and at that level the other races wouldn\'t
> make any difference anyway.