Holy Smokes!

What in the hell is wrong with you people! I am not approving of drinking and riding horses. I am suggesting a difference between showing up at noon \"over the limit\" and showing up at 9PM \"over the limit\". One makes me think of Pat Valenzuela and other makes me think we could be dealing with an irresponsible and immature 20+ year old that needs a little guidance. That doesn\'t make it right, but there\'s a distinction in terms of penalty and his prospects for this becoming chronic.

[TGJB]

CH-- should the same thinking about time of day apply when looking at DWI violations?

There are an awful lot of jockeys in wheelchairs, and all it takes is once.

[Caradoc]

First of all, L\'shanah tovah to all TG users out there.

In the spirit of the new year, I probably shouldn\'t contribute to these exchanges, but don\'t we have more worthy subjects to focus on? The BC is three plus weeks away and there\'s still another weekend of preps coming up for us to discuss, right?  

Class, I will summarize your first post for you and you tell me whether I\'m misstating it.  

Show up drunk for a day card: give them a big suspension and get them in a treatment program.

Show up drunk for a night card: give them a week suspension and a long talk.

I would ask you to explain why in God\'s name there should be this distinction (after all, the horses weigh the same, the potential for endangering yourself and your fellow riders is roughly the same, etc.) but I\'m afraid that would make the problem worse by inviting another long, irrelevant and ultimately foolish exchange.  Please let\'s not waste any more time on this and similar irrelevant foolishness and let\'s get back to the issues that matter.

[HP]

Class,

You have to post on every subject!

\"I am suggesting a difference between showing up at noon \"over the limit\" and showing up at 9PM \"over the limit\". That doesn\'t make it right, but there\'s a distinction in terms of penalty...\"

Why should there be a distinction in terms of penalty based on the time of day of the infraction?  You could easily argue drinking with dinner and racing at night is more dangerous, since you\'d be a little more tired after that routine, as opposed to having a few before the first race!

\"and the prospects for this becoming chronic.\"

This is where you are like the Energizer bunny.  You just keep going and going...  You have NO IDEA WHATSOEVER about this guy\'s life, the circumstances surrounding this incident or ANYTHING AT ALL to base this comment on.  You have NO CLUE about the prospects for this becoming chronic.  Because it was at night, his prospects for chronic alchol abuse are lower?  You are an IDIOT!  I\'m sure you will now post a long diatribe about your expertise in treating alcoholism, along with your incredible knack for investing in insurance companies, etc.

Serves you right that ezgoer rips you, just for posting ON EVERY DAMN SUBJECT THAT COMES UP.  This is yet another subject where you are a self appointed expert and you just don\'t know what the hell you\'re talking about!  Hopefully this poor kid will get some help.  As for you, take a week off for God\'s sake.  You\'ll still have plenty of time before Breeders Cup to monopolize the board.

HP

TGJB,

You are still missing the point. I was NOT commenting on whether or not he would have put others at risk by riding (driving) drunk. That\'s obvious. It doesn\'t matter whether you drink in the morning or the evening.

I am commenting on his prospects as a rider and what degree of drinking/substance abuse problem he might have based on this incident.

I think evening drinking (perhaps with dinner) is less of a sign of a serious drinking problem than morning drinking. So perhaps with a punishment, a good talking to, and a little more maturity, this will be the last time we will see this from him. If he was a morning drinker I would immediately suggest counseling or a program and expect more of the same every few months. No one drinks in the morning unless they have a problem. Everyone drinks in the evening socially and/or with dinner. He may just be irresponsible and immature and not have a drinking problem. If so, I think he will be fine and his career OK. Let\'s hope.  

[richiebee]

Caradoc:

     Thanks for the New Year greetings.

     Its a rough time of year, I\'m still writing 5765 on all my checks.

HP,

I would have been happy to make one comment and go away but some people are too dense to understand the distinction I was making and feel compelled to assume the worst about everything I say so they have another reason to trash me.

[TGJB]

CH-- class martyr, pace martyr, DWI martyr...

Any chance it\'s not them, but you?

That aside, the more you think about it, you have to wonder how many of those jockeys are in wheelchairs (I think I once heard it was over 100, but that sounds awful high) because somebody-- maybe even them-- was high or drunk when they rode, or tied a girth on. It\'s a lot more dangerous than driving a car.

[HP]

\"I would have been happy to make one comment and go away but some people are too dense to understand the distinction I was making and feel compelled to assume the worst about everything I say so they have another reason to trash me.\"

You can never make one comment and go away!  

I don\'t think anyone was TOO DENSE to understand what you were talking about.  You\'re not saying anything profound.  You\'re just WRONG!  The time of day is MEANINGLESS!  You just don\'t know a damn thing about this guy and you just have to get your stupid two cents in anyway.  Can\'t you just admit that YOU DON\'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THIS GUY?  You don\'t!  This isn\'t an argument about pace, etc.  You don\'t know anything about him or his situation.  Doesn\'t stop you from extrapolating, etc.      

I don\'t assume the worst about EVERYTHING you say.  I\'m only talking about this one specific thing, where you are UNEQUIVOCALLY WRONG AND DON\'T KNOW WHAT YOU\'RE TALKING ABOUT.  Just admit it, for once, you\'re WRONG!  Don\'t feel bad.  My wife tells me everybody is wrong sometimes.  

I don\'t think anyone needs any additional reasons to trash you.  Your continuous daily output provides more than enough...  And apparently \"trashing you\" has no impact as you continue to post at \"War and Peace\" levels regardless...  

HP

[richiebee]

To me, one of the great and miserable ironies in racing was that Bill Shoemaker had one of the great long careers in race riding history, retired from the saddle healthy, and then had 2 beers after a round of golf and rolled his Ford down an embankment, rendering himself a parapalegic.

[jbelfior]

He broke down while being interviewed on TVG after winning a Del Mar turf stakes race last month aboard LEPRUCHAN KID. My feeling is there is something wrong in his life.


Good Luck,
Joe B.

[Chuckles_the_Clown2]

Maybe Class likes to give Jockeys the benefit of the doubt. Still haven\'t read a story where the Jock admits to having a drink and considering the eating disorder rumor one drink would probably do it.

.05 threshold? How far over was he? What if he didn\'t drink? Could an individual with Anorexia have his own body break itself down and produce a minimal amount of alcohol in the process? The breakdown of organic matter can result in alcohol as a by product. This kid is rumored to have Bulemia. If he had a beer thats another matter.

You all are right of course. Its serious business and Jockeys are fighter pilots. Each day may be their last. They work hard and play harder. Theres plenty of stories, Valenzeula, Elliot, Hanson, Bailey. Theres more. They should be tested with a blow in the Jocks room and blood samples should be taken of all placing horses and frozen with a preservative so that blood doesnt ferment.

The Shoe story is an incredible irony. What a wonderful guy he was.

HP Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> I don\'t assume the worst about EVERYTHING you say.
>  I\'m only talking about this one specific thing,
> where you are UNEQUIVOCALLY WRONG AND DON\'T KNOW
> WHAT YOU\'RE TALKING ABOUT.  Just admit it, for
> once, you\'re WRONG!  Don\'t feel bad.  My wife
> tells me everybody is wrong sometimes.  
\"War and Peace\" levels regardless...  
>
> HP
>

TGJB,

>Any chance it\'s not them, but you? <

I know that most people here find me very annoying, but I\'m also pretty sure a lot of what they complain about they instigate themselves because they respond to an opinion I express that is contrary to what they believe (or want to believe) and I respond back. So the conversation continues. It has happened so many times, it has deteriorated to the point where whatever I say it\'s either unwanted or the worst is assumed and the simple point being made gets lost in a bunch of complaints and attacks that were not required.

\"If\" I said I don\'t think Borrego ran as fast as you think and expressed why, it would turn into an endless conversation, a series of attack posts, and ultimately end badly again when really all that\'s required is perhaps 2-3 posts, a potential insight here or there, and perhaps an agreement to disagree.  

I don\'t seem to have these problems when discussing racing elsewhere or when I discuss any number of other hobbies on other boards regardless of whether people agree with me or not.    

[TGJB]

\"I told my doctor I broke my arm in three places. He said, stay away from those places\"-- Henny Youngman.

CH-- the solution seems obvious-- why not just post on those other boards?

TGJB,

I do, but I also like to read the commentary here and on your competitor\'s board to see what other people are thinking. Believe me, when I do post I\'m not looking to start trouble. I\'m looking to express another point of view that will perhaps be benefical and then all hell breaks loose.  Plus, I do buy both products from time to time.