jockeys

[cubfan0316]

great job by dominguez. hes as bad as santos. i think they should have snipers in the stands with scoped rifles and shoot the jockeys out of the saddle for stupidity and not trying.

[NoCarolinaTony]

I flew home with Ramon Dominguez from Kee and talked about the race in question (ie http://www.drf.com/row/charts/05woodford_chart.pdf). Ramon turned out to be  to be one of the classiest guys I have ever met. In addition also had a chance to talk to C & J Valasquez  and Eddie Castro as well about the races at Kee on 10/9. They all confirmed that even though the TURF was listed as FIRM the inside part was very deep and very tiring. This may have been a reason why both outside horses ran on(ie the 11 and 12 four and 5 wide most of the way) They (the jocks) felt the turf course could have been listed as soft. In fact when I got home I had a chance to watch the saturday NBC broadcast and saw how much Boby Frankel was complaining about the quality of the surface on Saturday. I asked Johhny V why did Bailey switch Intercontinetal off of the 2 path rather abruptly to almost the 4-5 turning for home in the \"Winstar Galaxy\"  (two races later) down the stretch. He said the crown was the firmest part and the rail was very soft tiring and deep. He also chose to have Wend come wide as well for same reasons. Johhny V also said Wend dwealt unexpectedly at the start but rated very well. Wants more distance for what it\'s worth.

Getting back to Dominguez, he said the horse (Battle Won) became somewhat discouraged but also just didn\'t like the going even when he finally got clearance and just did not fire. They (Simon the trainer and Ramon) feel it was an excellent prep for the BC Sprint. The rest is your call how you you want to interpert this. They certainly didn\'t purposely not try here, Dominguez was surprised as to how soft the turf was playing. They all got wiser in the second turf race.

This was Dr. Bert\'s BC race(Bourbon County).

NC Tony

\"I hope that is better.\"

[scavsiu8]

That is great info Tony, thank you for sharing

[Chuckles_the_Clown2]

NCTony, circumstances dictate that its time to pass the authoritative and controversial \"Chuckles the Clown\" pen to a new potentate. The former funny man will no longer be posting. This change in policy is a result of several factors, by no means the least of which was the discontent percolating under the Tgraph Big Top. This discontent was at least in part related to discussion of Chuckle\'s \"Ferreting Out the Controversial Figure\" methodology. No worries, greater visionaries than Chuckles have had their ideas rejected by the masses. Some with much greater consequence to the visionary...lol

Having avoided the executioner however, Chuckles will continue to peruse the best site in existence for professionally produced performance figures as long as allowed to do so, including Ask the Experts, ROTW and occasional Red Board forays for those times when even the Clown becomes confused.

Having scanned the Ask the Experts page for a heir apparent, Chuckles has ascertained by frequency of posts that there is no contest for successor and that by default the privilege goes to NcarolinaTony, who now inherits the golden pen. Tony, the departing laureate asks only one thing of you in your reign. \"Please write as if you are trying to read and understand what you, yourself have written.\" The golden pen has to be wielded with empathy for both the knowledgeable and unknowledgeable alike.

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> I flew home with Dominguez from Kee and talked
> about the race in question.

Which Race?

> (He  happens to be one
> of the classiest guys I have ever met). I also had
> a chance to talk to C & J Valasquez  and Eddie
> Castro as well.

> They all confirmed that 1) even
> though the track was listed as Fast the inide part
> was very deep and very tiring.

Are you relaying that the inside was deep and tiring? and additionally the 11 and 12 positions may have been soft?

> were (ie the 11 and 12
> on the outside) they felt it could have been
> listed as soft.

You\'ve failed to identify the race and have mixed Dirt (deep) with Turf terms (soft).

> I asked JV why did Bailey switch
> the horse off of the 2 (Intercontinetal different
> race) path to almost the 5-6 path down the stretch
> and they said the crown was the firmest part and
> the rail was very soft tiring and deep.

Ok, this says enough to indicate you are describing the WinStar Galaxy, but it took to here to get an idea of what you were talking about. Never allow a jockey to frame the description.
 
>
> Getting back to Dominguez, he said the horse
> became somewhat discouraged but also just didn\'t
> like the going even when he finally got clearance
> and did not fire.

Which horse Very Very?

> They feel it was an excellent
> prep for th BC Sprint.

Very Very is going for the sprint?

> The rest is your call how
> you you want to interpert this. They certainly
> didn\'t purposely not try here, they (Dominguez)
> were surprised as to how the turf was playing.
> They got wiser in the second turf race. This was
> Dr. Bert\'s BC race.

Tony, this post was before official passage of the Golden Pen. It’s in your possession now. Be careful with it.

CtC


>
> NC Tony
>
>
>
> Edited 1 times. Last edit at 10/09/05 11:41PM by
> NoCarolinaTony.

[TGJB]

CTC-- your original staement was that ALL figures should be reviewed after later races. That is not true.

Knock it off. Participate and offer insights, just like everybody else, and stop making it about you OR any other individual.

[NoCarolinaTony]

CTC,

Constructive criticism is noted. I will edit the post to make it clearer. Hell it was late, I was tired but was trying to share some info with the board while it was fresh in my \"cloudy\" mind.

NC Tony

The prior post is now edited.

[Michael D.]

thanks Tony. as usual, great insight. dominguez is known for strangling horses on the turf, then making a move too late. you know what though, the guy saves more ground that any jock alive, and still manages to get enough run out of his mounts to have as high a turf ROI as any big name rider out there. kind of an optical illusion i guess. i\'ll take him anytime (except at 3/5 in a small stks race three weeks before the BC). and Tony, your first post was excellent. get it in while still fresh in your mind, most of us will figure out what you are talking about.....

 

[Saddlecloth]

you mean a jockey may keep a horse in the three path the whole way and actually get the best trip, who knew!

How do the figures incorporate that?

[marcus]

I was trying to get a clue as too which path ( or which part of the track ) those jockey\'s and horse\'s wanted run in on turf races at Kee this wknd , it\'s always tough to decifer on tv but it looked like something going on in the area of the grass course playing uneven over there .
 Are the stricter drug testing rules  working now that we are once again dicussing as a relevent issue , ground loss and path number ?
 I\'m doing the Kee online contest and although I came up w/ PP in a stk race where double pts are awarded , it has been dicey at the Keeneland meet so far .

[TGJB]

We\'ve covered this a lot here-- do a search here for \"dead rail\", and see what you find.

[TGJB]

So I read Tony\'s post about jockeys and thought, yeah, yeah, those jocks always have some thing to say, and they don\'t wear size six hats for nothing (credit to Dave Johnson for that). But what the hell, so many horses are running off races and X\'s at Keenland, I might as well take a look at the first two days.

Well, guess what. It wasn\'t just the rail, it was the inside TWO paths. I have only given out one other dead turf rail in 20 years, but this one is clear-- high level turf horses run a very high percentage of tops and pairs, and only one horse out of 20 in those paths even paired up.

It will be interesting to follow those horses back, and the subsequent days.