Jockey Change - Belmont, 6/10, 12th race

[Delmar Deb]

Can anyone tell me why the NYRA Belmont simulcast scroll and Tom Durkin\'s track change announcement both stated that Desormeaux was to ride horse #8 in the 12th race, when the chart indicates that he rode horse #9 - who was in Post Position #8?

My key horse was #10 - who finished 2nd.  I put him in exactas with #2,5,11 & 8 because I thought that I was getting the other best turf riders in the race - namely Coa, Mig, C. Velasquez and DESORMEAUX!  

I know that TVG often gives out the Post Position number instead of the saddlecloth/betting number in changes and even odds, but I am used to their incompetency and do not rely on their information (or lack thereof) for such information.  Instead, I will watch the track feed for verification.  

However, for the track itself to get it wrong is something else again.  

[imallin]

What do you expect, they are idiots. They cut off many prominent rebate shops and are throwing millions of dollars in handle in the toilet every day because Greg Martin gave 1 horse in one race some baking soda. Not enough to toss millions in the receptacle, but apparantely they are concerned about \'image\'.

ONe day, someone is going to write a book called, \"the rise and fall of NYRA\"

No doubt, it will be a best seller.

[richiebee]

Note to \"ImALWAYSin\":

Sure its easy to criticize NYRA. Because NYRA does business year around, year in, year out, in a tough market, NYRA and New York racing are closely scrutinized.

A lot of NYRA problems, including the trumped up charges against Greg Martin (1 count in a 75 count indictment) and Braulio Baeza (accused of doing something which was being done in almost every jocks room in the country for about a century) have been forced into the limelight by New York\'s state attorney general,who will not rest until he is elected President of the United States (both AG Spitzer and Senator Schumer are in a match race to become our nation\'s first Jewish president).

Lets review some of the major racing circuits in the US and see, as former NY Mayor Ed Koch would say, \"How\'s NYRA doin\'?

Lets start with the cradle of American racing, the Bluegrass state, where the inmates (owners, trainers, breeders) run the asylum. Can you say \"permissive medication\"? In terms of facilities, two world class facilities and two absolute dumps, Ellis (do they still grow soybeans in the infield?) and Latonia, er, Turfway. I haven\'t been to hEllish or Turfway in nearly 20 years, and some hardboot like BellsBendBoy will tell me that these two facilities have improved. Sorry, but you can\'t polish a turd, or to put it another way,any attempt to \"fix up\" these two places would be like \"fixing the drapes on the Titanic\".

I will be curious to see what happens to Keeneland\'s national handle after the installation of Polytrack.

Lets go to California. They insist on continuing to operate Bay Meadows and Golden Gate, they continue to have short fields at all tracks. Home of superior horsemen like Milkshake Mullins and Vladimir Syringe. How about the admirable and humane way the Cal powers that be handled the Sweet Catomine affair last year?

And soon Cal will be all poly all the time. We need to replace Bing Crosby\'s \"Where the Surf Meets the Turf\" with a grunge band singing \"Where the Pacific meets the Polytrack\". And of course they need Polytrack at Del Mar, where they run a 6-8 week meet under optimal weather conditions.

But I love betting Cal races. On Friday night, race 6, 12 horse field. 10/1 winner, place horse 16/1, exacta $101 for $1?

The most tragic circuit will be Maryland, because the Frankster controls the whole circuit. The Maryland circuit will be the sacrificial lamb when cash poorMagna makes its bid for NYRA. In light of the awful attitude of Maryland politicians towards Racing (\"Politicians to Maryland Racing-- Drop Dead\"), it is hard to imagine any operator taking over these facilities.

Florida also has Frankstro problems. The slot proceeds split (50/50 with the state/county) is not acceptable, and Magna\'s cash flow problems will prevent necessary purse increases (how long does Frank think Magna (Parent)shareholders will allow Magna (Parent) to float loans to Magna Entertainment)? (I believe the first shareholder derivative suits have been filed in Ontario courts). It was written this winter that non stake purses at Gulfstream were so low that horsemen were using Gulfstream and Palm Meadows as training facilities, waiting for the venues with more lucrative purses to open. The greatest shame in Florida is that one of the most beautiful racetracks ANYWHERE has become a fallow plot of ground.

So yes, NYRA has problems, and maybe a couple of idiots. But when New York racing has a big day, like Belmont Day or Travers Day or Breeders Cup Preview Day, its as good a day of racing as we have in this country. And I still contend that the day to day product year round is as good or better than anywhere in the U.S.

 

[Thehoarsehorseplayer]

The simple answer is because nobody in this industry understands that the integrity of the information they provide is the bedrock of the game.

If you believe handicappers are investors, then you hire an information integrity manager whose job it is to make sure the players are getting the best information possible. If you believe they are degenerate gamblers, close enough is close enough.

Close enough seems to be the industry dynamic.  Even the Racing Form seems to be operating under the principle of \"More ink, less integrity\" these days. (And if there is any entity that should have an information integrity ombudsmen whose contact information is prominently printed in every edition it is the Racing Form, if only to prevent them from reprinting mistake after reprinted mistake.)

And until the cavelier attitude towards providing the best information changes racing is going to be what it is.  A business that draws in two dollar bettors with umbrellas with T-shirts and chases away potential two hundred dollar bettors with the sort of incident that happened to you yesterday.

My condolencess.  Been there, got done like that.



   

[imallin]

I agree about that Fri night exacta at Hol, that was low. I\'m like, \"Where\'s the rest of it\"

You\'re right, obviously, other tracks, states and circuits have their problems. My post was in response to deb\'s post about nyra...if we want to open up a new thread criticizing everyone else, than by all means do so, i\'d love to participate in that.

Funny you singled out Cerin(ge) and Mullins because i can tell you that these guys are 2 of the better trainers out there. They aren\'t just \'drug\' guys.

Ask Jerry, he knows about Cerin\'s oxygen chamber and some other stuff he does that\'s on the up and up, so Vlado is a good trainer who\'s \'not just a drug guy\'

If you want to make a list of \'paper trainers\' Mullins and Cerin are not on that list. Not to say they don\'t take an edge, but they are good trainers also, not just \'edge\' guys.

I\'m not so sure giving ALL the So Cal tracks polytrack is a good idea. What happens when people decide that polytrack has cheapened the product and the \'spray\' and decide they don\'t want to bet the races because the \'spray\' will determine winners and losers.

I think that if you switch ALL the tracks in Cali to polytrack, there\'s going to be no \'allure\' of difference. People might think it ruined Del Mar because it makes it too much like the other places.

Also, how is polytrack going to affect the races in the summer? Turfway ran their previous meet in the winter, so who knows how SA or DMR are going to react.

How are they going to keep water in the track at SA on one of those hot desert days w santa ana winds? If they water w 20 mins to post, the track will be bone dry at post time. Are they going to be watering up until 3 mins to post? Are the watertrucks going to be circling the horses who are warming up?

Time will tell. I think they were supposed to switch hollywood to Polytrack and see for a year how that experiment went before committing every track to this.

[imallin]

one addition to my post...i don\'t know about polytrack in the \'water\' sense. Is this a surface that gets watered between races? I shouldnt have jumped to that conclusion, because i dont know the maintenance habits of plytrack.

[miff]

Deb,

Tough beat and I don\'t know how but I had Kent D marked on the 9 and I only had the NYRA feed on CH 71.From memory I heard Durkin announce the change.

Mike

[Delmar Deb]

They must have made the change at some point because Xpresbet had the correct info up last night.  But my husband didn\'t arrive at Del Mar until @ the 4th race and he asked me if I saw the change to Desormeaux on #8...after watching the scroll.  It was at that point that I watched it again and still saw and heard announced jockey changes on #\'s 4 and 8 with no names given for the horses.  Otherwise, I would have figured out the mistake!

Hey, I have a better one for you...an employee in the Santa Anita racing office accepted and listed a scratch that was announced on the morning radio shows and in the initial batch of changes.  He then allowed the trainer to withdraw the scratch, but no announcement was made to this effect.  

Standing in the paddock and watching the horses go to post, here comes the scratched horse (who would have been a single on a lot of Pick 6 tickets), and even a different trainer - Bill Spawr - went nuts when he saw the \"scratch\" wearing the 10 saddlecloth!

In fact, there was so much made about this incident, that the truth of what happened finally came out. Up until that time, the track kept denying that the horse was ever shown or announced as a \"scratch\".  The guy lost his job here, so maybe he\'s with NYRA now!  

[TGJB]

Hoarse-- You know what? You may have really hit on something here, seriously. I like the idea of an \"Integrity Manager\", or Ombudsman, appointed by the NTRA. It would have to be someone owing nothing to the industry, but if we could get that, there would at least be someone to write to about integrity issues in the game, and not just about misinformation. Hmmm...

[asfufh]

Imallin said;>>>>>\"What do you expect, they are idiots. They cut off many prominent rebate shops and are throwing millions of dollars in handle in the toilet every day because Greg Martin gave 1 horse in one race some baking soda. Not enough to toss millions in the receptacle, but apparantely they are concerned about \'image\'.
ONe day, someone is going to write a book called, \"the rise and fall of NYRA\"
No doubt, it will be a best seller.\"<<<<<

Imallin, The NYRA has had many problems but ,imho, cutting off the so-called rebate shops is not one of them.
Suggest you read the NTRA task force report:

http://www.bloodhorse.com/pdf/NTRATaskReportSep04.pdf

especially the section on Computerized Robotic Wagering (CRW).

To me, allowing someone\'s computer to be the bettor, the OTB, the Tote, and the track all at once with instantaneous direct electronic access to the track\'s tote system\'s information to configure their bets(via their software) and then directly processing their bets to the track\'s tote system at the last possible minute in nanoseconds gives these (skimming?) operations a tremendous unfair advantage over the rest of us bettors(see the report for some of the apparent successes of the shops using CRW).
Don\'t get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with using computer programs to determine your wagers....what is wrong is to give a priviledged few direct electronic access to the track\'s wagering systems.
To my knowledge,in spite of the task force\'s conclusions, the only tracks that have attempted to stop these operations(mostly SPMO\'s--i.e.non-track otb\'s) are the NYRA and Woodbine......good for them!
These unfair wagering operations should be universally banned but it appears most tracks are willing to garner short term profits via the larger handles (at woefully low commissions) from SPMO\'s at the expense of the long term welfare of horseracing (and, of course, to the detriment of the vast majority of horseplayer\'s wallets).
Asfufh

[imallin]

So then, cut off the computer bettors...what does that have to do with the other 99.9 pct of the people who pick up a phone and call the bet into a live teller?

I agree with you, a computer shouldn\'t be allowed to place the wagers, they should be done by a person with his or her voice.

[asfufh]

Imallin, The problem is the whales use CRW and make up the bulk of the money bet through these channels. Here\'s a couple of quotes from various articles/reports discussing this :

\"By 2003 RSI\'s off-track handle had grown from $9 million to $214 million a year. Amazingly, according a state representative\'s floor speech in the North Dakota legislature, around $130 million of the handle came from one man. Even after that statement, state officials refused to identify the bettor until his name emerged in the RSI bankruptcy. He turned out to be a little-known professional gambler from Las Vegas named Peter Wagner. According to a complaint from a racetrack that denied RSI its betting signal, Wagner used elaborate computer software to make his picks and a direct link to the betting terminal to enter his wagers seconds before race time\"

\"According to a September 2004 report from a racing industry Wagering Systems Task Force, the majority of this handle goes through what it called Secondary Pari-Mutuel Organizations, or rebate shops, which remit five to 10 percent of the cost of a bet to high-volume customers. These clients often use computerized robotic wagering, giving them a last-second edge in placing bets.
Research for this highly sophisticated report was contributed in part by the consulting firm of former New York City Mayor Rudolph Giuliani. The report singled out \'\'Native American gaming facilities\'\' as a key component of this new industry, which was targeted by the New York cutoff.\"

\"The incentive to lobby for a rebate program, a movement opposed by downstate off-track betting corporations, followed NYRA\'s decision last year to cease doing business with 10 offshore and domestic simulcast operations, which paid a small fee for the satellite signal and kicked back as much as 15 percent to those playing at a level that will now qualify for the maximum approved by New York regulators. These firms provide their best clients with computer access to pool data, which allows the use of batch-betting programs that place multiple wagers within seconds of post time, an advantage widely regarded as unfair.\"

[miff]

Asfufh,

There are several write ups about batch betting. Still surprising that many bettors do not fully understand that batch betting represents an additional take out on players. It\'s not past posting or anything like that.


NYRA was approached by several big bettors who were assured that no rebate shops, which allowed batch betting, were into the NYRA pools.I understand it is easy for any track to detect batch bets.


Mike

[marcus]

it seems appropriate to locate these type of machines along side slot and scratch-off lottery ticket machines   ...  who knows - the whole phenomena might have a reverse effect on the industry and they\'ll find that bettors would perfer to do things \" monkey style \" or the old fashion way ...
 technology should not be allowed to give certain players an unfair advantage when it comes time base an opinion on odds - perhaps betting from these locations could be stoped a moment or two early before post , so that in terms of information , the rest of the pool is on a level playing feild and not having to deal w/ artificial odds .

[imallin]

Explain to me again why this betting is no good. After all, its not like the bets are being placed after the race starts, right?

Isn\'t it good to have more money in the betting pools?