Jockey Change - Belmont, 6/10, 12th race

[Boscar Obarra]

 I don\'t pay much attention to racing pools outside of NY, and not even that most of the time these days.

  I will assume NYRA is not one of the 20 second tracks.  I will also state that any track that allows that is engaging in a criminal enterprise.

  Wall street just (last few years) had a scandal where certain LARGE players (sound familiar) were able to buy and sell Mutual Funds after price changes in stocks were known but not reflected in the funds pricing. They were stealing from the little guy, with the blessing of the fund managers or  brokers.

  Hundreds of millions in fines were paid.

  Since horseplayers are the lowest form of life on the planet, no one cares about this?  

  A class action lawsuit might shake them up.

  Also, Wall St again. I can place an order from my home computer that is displayed to the WORLD in about  10 millseconds. That racetracks would still be talking about 90 or 45 second lags, is ludicrous.

[miff]

Boxcar,

Fyi, at NY tracks I still occasionally notice the odds changing after the start, especially loose front runners that are favorite.I would not be shocked if some money is coming in after the race starts (20 SECS)

Another thing I have also noticed is that the odds on all the OTHER runners in the race go up.


Mike

[flushedstraight]

Considering today\'s performance level of information and communication technology, there is no valid reason why odds should change after a race starts. If Colonial Downs can offer 1,000,000 USD for one race then most tracks can afford the systems upgrades if need be... there is obviously a lot at stake here. At the very least they should close the pools early to allow final calculations in time. (wasn\'t this happening for a while?)... what\'s the downside of setting a fixed point in time for pool closing and display a countdown clock to the second? Less handle? how about compared to no handle?

As long as odds are still changing after the gate opens I will be suspicious of criminal activity because that would be the only logical reason why it is still happening.


Maybe everyone here can post incidents of this that they witness and with enough of a sample we can draw some conclusions of where this is occuring. This might be the only way... studying charts is useless. There is no reason why a track (or circuit of tracks) won\'t step forward one day and guarantee no late odds changes to the betting public. I imagine if they did this combined with effective publicity it would increase handle and create market pressures.


I\'ve seen incidents at NYRA... Miff & I can\'t be the only ones. I wonder about Kentucky and the Cal circuits.

[Wrongly]

The one that sticks in my mind was Monarochos in the Florida Derby.

[rangers94]

From 1999-2002 a buddy and I would be in the grandstand with our binoculars
EVERY day for Gulfstream and Calder.As someone else mentioned it would always be the frontrunners dropping and it happened constantly.We did document and go to the head of mutuels who gave you the stock answer,late simulcast money,etc.Nobody cares, as long as the hanlde comes in the degenerate gamblers can just bend over and take it,that\'s the attitude we got.

[imallin]

I remember a race at Gulfstream going back a bunch of years, probably 4 or 5, there was a 4-5 shot that looked fantastic on paper, top jock and trainer. The horse broke 5 lengths slow and i don\'t remember if i bet the race or not, but i noticed the horse went off at 6-5 final price. There\'s no way a horse that looks great on paper with no negatives to speak of goes up 2 ticks unless people are seeing the start and getting massive refunds on the cancel.

I think a lot of the odds changes are not necessarily money coming in after the start, but someone may make 2 or 3 large win bets...watch the first 100 yards and if the speed horse looks sharp, they cancel the other 2 bets...thats why the speed horse will go down in price...because there are refunds on the others who are not near the lead.

[1st time lasix]

exactly how it could be done. It stinks! Also a computer progam that only handicaps speed to the first call along with liklyhoods of finishing first could easily be configured. I know Calder lets that money in...so I avoid the win pool there. Wouldn\'t be surprised that Gulfstream does it too. Tampa announced last year that it wasn\'t going to do it and the handle increased there dramatically. {of course this wasn\'t the only reason for that}