Miscellaneous

[HP]

\"Your characterization of Nebel and his situation is/was incorrect. But hey, you are going to spin everything as negatively as possible so I won\'t get into it with you.\"

Nebel was banned from the track(s). No spin is necessary. Why don\'t you have Friedman or Nebel elaborate on this on their site? I\'m sure they\'ll be able to explain it, especially if it was unjust.

If you put up anything on this over there they will take it down in two seconds. That\'s all the \'spin\' anybody needs. HP

[Jim]

HP

Pesonally, I don\'t know Friedman, and it\'s not my place to defend Nebel to you or anyone else on this board. My post was to address the spin on the facts about Gulfstream, their TG Operatives, and the Seminar.

Kind of funny that you think Ragozin\'s policy of not engaging in this sort of banter is a spin. Where I come from it\'s called taking the high road.

[HP]

If it\'s not your place to defend Nebel, then don\'t. I said he was banned, you said he wasn\'t, Jerry said he was and now you say it\'s a \'mischaracterization\' and \'incorrect.\'

He was banned. Apparently the actions of the track\'s management mean nothing to you, and this doesn\'t reflect on Nebel or his employers. Whatever.

As for Ragozin\'s policy, are companies responsible for the actions of their employees or not? I think, to some extent, they are. There\'s plenty of law on the subject.

I guess I don\'t blame them for not talking about Nebel being banned. Companies are not usually in the habit of talking about their problems unless they are compelled to do so. I for one am not particularly inspired by dead silence in response to significant accusations, or companies that continue to employ people who can\'t seem to do their job without being thrown out of their place of business. But hey, whatever floats your boat.

If that\'s the \'high road\', you can have it. Good luck. HP

[Jim]

HP,

Sounds like you have a lot of issues there, bud. Breathe deeply, why are you getting so worked up? You and Jerry haven\'t proven that anything I have said is incorrect, so why beat yourself up?

Please show me where I said Nebel isn\'t banned at Calder? I said he isn\'t banned at Gulfstream. You keep trying, but you aren\'t going to twist my words. I said Jerry mischaracterized Nebel\'s situation and I stand by that. He was reinstated by Calder for the \"pass-selling\" misunderstanding and has no problem at Gulfstream (and never did at Hialeah).

You are correct about one thing - the actions of track management mean nothing to me. Just like when they threw the Thorograph product off of Calder a couple of years ago due to lack of sales. I didn\'t care - I have no vested interest here.

The better question is...why are you so bitter?

[HP]

Thanks for your counseling. I feel better now.

Okay, Nebel was banned at Calder. Boy now I really feel stupid. You are some kind of rhetorical genius. Take a bow.  

You\'re right, those poor Ragozin guys really got screwed down there. HP

[HP]

By the way, what did Nebel \'misunderstand\'? Since you know so much about this. He didn\'t know he wasn\'t supposed to re-sell the passes? Is he slow? When you\'re given passes to something, you don\'t know they\'re not for sale? They give you passes and say \"here are some passes, if you can\'t use them, sell them and keep the money?\" You\'re sure nothing else was involved? I\'m not bitter, but this takes the cake.  

Have you complained to Gulfstream about this whole grave injustice? Wouldn\'t that be the more appropriate forum for your remarks? Why don\'t you post on the Rag board? Wouldn\'t they be interested in rallying around the flag? On the high road? HP

[Jim]

HP,

I\'m glad you are feeling better. You are starting to come around now. The world is much less complicated when we deal in facts, isn\'t it?

Once again I\'ll tell you that my comments originally had nothing to do with Nebel, yet you seem to be stuck there. This guy must have really gotten under your skin. All you can do is produce slander and snide remarks about the guy. You aren\'t bitter? You fabricate scenarios that make him sound like a thief and call him slow - too funny! Like I said before, you have deep issues.

Yes, I do know the whole story, but it doesn\'t seem as if you do. Let\'s just see if you know the basics. How much did he alledgedly \"sell\" them for? Answer that and it will all come clear to you. If you can\'t answer it, then I know you are ignorant on the subject and just trying to spew venom.

Dude, lighten up, you\'ll live longer. I never characterized the Gulfstream Seminar as a grave injustice. I\'m not complaining to GP and I\'m not complaining here. All I did was try to correct some of the errors and misrepresentations above. You take these comments way too personal.

Life is good!

[TGJB]

Jim,
You know, I almost was willing to let this go- but then I read it again, and you are just so disgustingly dishonest.

1- \"I am not currently, nor have I ever been, an employee of Ragozin.\" Yet, you claim to know our sales figures, the details regarding Rovine/Burke(which, as you know, resulted from Nebel\'s complaint), and parrot the party line regarding our supposed lack of financial health.

2- \"Your characterization of Nebel... is incorrect.\" He got barred for doing something dishonest. Straighten me out, and I don\'t mean splitting hairs about which track he got barred from.

3- \"I never said you were losing money on your promotion.\" No, you IMPLIED it, and said we did it out of desperation, which is a crock.

4- \"Check/Cash is the same thing as far as I\'m concerned.\" Then why bring it up? We both know why.

5- \"You should get off the kick that you are trying to do something beneficial for Gulfstream and their patrons.\" I\'m running a business, and as such recognize that giving value to the track, my customers, and potential customers, makes them all want to do business with me. I don\'t believe in charging people to learn how to use a commercial product. As such, the seminars become events that are good promotions for the tracks, and ultimately for us.

6- \"Just be honest- I know I would certainly respect you a whole lot more. As it is...\"  You guys wonder why I\'m as angry at the Ragozin operation as I am? This guy either works for them, or has been fed this stuff by them- there is no third choice. And it goes on ALL THE TIME in the field- the only time they take the \"high road\" is when we are in a position to respond, and the only thing they will never do is compare products.

[Jim]

Jerry, Jerry, perhaps I can negotiate a 2 for 1 discount with the terapist for you and HP. Try this...close your eyes and repeat \"Serenity now!!\" every 5 seconds. Better?

In answer to your attacks:

1)I thought you knew this, but there are few secrets in the racing industry. I have many friends that are employees at many racetracks. I know several Sheet players. Call me a liar all you want, still doesn\'t make it true.

2)Follow your lackey HP\'s thread, the story is there.

3)Uh ok Jerry. If you say so. I was under the impression your product was thrown off the track at Calder year before last due to poor sales. I mean how bad is it when Lawton, who sells $10/day, is allowed to stay and your product got the hook?

4)The point is you HAVE to pay cash for shipping.

5)I call bs. You aren\'t doing anything for the GP patrons out of the goodness of your heart. You GAVE your product away to promote your product. Ragozin didn\'t because he doesn\'t have to (what did I imply there?) - end of story.

6)Once again, I don\'t work for them and never have. I just got fed up with bs and set you straight. Call me a liar again and we\'ll see who backs down when push comes to shove.


Come on Jerry, you aren\'t changing my mind, putting words in my mouth, or getting me to change the subject. I stand by everything I said in the post and you still have not refuted one word. Is offense really your best defense? Let me apologize for saying you are desperate, you obviously are very secure, lol.

I have purposely tried to stay away from bashing/slamming you, but you saying that I am dishonest is crossing the line. Keep it up and this discussion will take a nasty turn, count on it. Ragozin may take the high road, but I have no relationship with them so I don\'t have to. Your own customers (there are a couple on this thread) tire of your rants against Ragozin - grow up already.

[HP]

The lackey chimes in -

You\'re right, I apologize, Nebel must have been barred for doing something good. No reflection on Ragozin. Thanks for clearing this up.

Gee I\'ve never heard of a company giving away its products in a promotion. Marketing must be another field of expertise for you.

I can afford my own therapist, thanks. I\'ll have to let Jerry handle your emailed threats. I\'ll bow out, before your nasty turn. I have heart trouble.

Hey lighten up, dude! You\'re taking it all too seriously. No one\'s mind is in danger of changing here. HP

[TGJB]

Jim-
To quote Peter O\'Toole(Henry II?)in \"A Lion In Winter\", \"I\'ve won. Surely you noticed.\"
When we started this site, one of my stated aims was to bring guys like you out from under the rocks and into the open, where both the methods and false accusations of the Raggies would be clear, and the B.S. refuted. In your case we have the added bonus of seeing the breathtaking contempt you have for the intelligence of those following the \"debate\"-  attempts at slippery, Clintonesque(and not even well done)hair splitting(it matters at which track Nebel got banned?).
In any event, we don\'t pay cash for shipping, not that it would mean anything regarding the value of the product if we did. A long time(8-10 years)ago we did have to, when the company was shaky. We do almost all our business with UPS on the same basis Ragozin does his with FedEx. We do a few packages a week with FedEx, and pay by check. Discussion of this subject says alot more about you, Nebel and the other Raggies than it does about us.
You asked HP if he knew how much Nebel was selling those passes for. Answer- enough to get his ass thrown off track.
Too funny.
Incidentally, are there terapists outside Maryland?

[Jim]

Yeah, HP, you are right.

You are dragging me down to your\'s and Jerry\'s level and it could start getting ugly. My emailed threats? LOL, very funny! I think \"Serenity now!!\" will work for you too.

Now, I need to get back on that high road and ignore the attacks on my character. That is, unless Jerry wants to call me a liar again, without a shred of proof I might ad.

PS Your implication that Nebel can\'t do his job is also incorrect. He goes to Calder daily - guess he wasn\'t totally barred, was he? I guess you really don\'t know much of anything after all. I do pity you.

[Jim]

Jerry,

I like how you pick one or two things from my factual replies and try to slide past them but you have done nothing but proven my points. Why exactly did you have to pay cash?

It mattered which track because you were wrong. I know that you would like to me to pass over everything you post incorrectly, but I\'m not going to. Once I again I tell you that Nebel was reinstated for the pass \"misunderstanding\". (doesn\'t seem to sink in with you guys for some reason though)

Seems you have completely gotten off my original points about Gulfstream, the seminar, and the ThoroGraph Operatives (talk about questionable characters). A victory for me since you didn\'t say I wrong about any of them...what you don\'t say says a lot more about you that what you are saying.

[HP]

Banned! From the track! And then reinstated! How big is that on a resume? He must be some kind of wizard to work there every day now. Must be a tough job, having to figure out what to do with freebies. I know I couldn\'t do it. Ragozin must be raking it in if Nebel has to sell passes. O I\'m sorry, he wasn\'t selling them and it was all a misunderstanding. I wish I knew the whole story! I\'m sure nothing else was involved and based on that simple misunderstanding they banned him. You are some kind of insider. It\'s a good thing they worked that out, so now he has a job.

Maybe you know the answer to this; was there some kind of memo circulated at Ragozin after this episode to give their employees guidance on how not to get banned? Or have they managed to figure that out on their own? How about a memo on arranging seminars, since that\'s so tough down there? I mean with all the TG operatives (working for a company that\'s been going broke for awhile) running everything. Come on, let\'s keep talking about this, please! HP

[TGJB]

Jim-
I have a lot higher opinion of readers here than you do- I\'ll let this go unanswered. Thank you, and don\'t be a stranger.