milkshake

[rosewood]

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/horse/news/story?id=3225083

[alm]

This is a funny story...O\'Neill will monitor his own barn more closely to prevent chicanery?

I once had a trainer who got caught with a satchel of syringes in one of his stalls, which is a very BAD.

He asked me to call the stewards to assure them I had only ever seen him injecting a horse on his farm.

Oh, to be crooked AND stupid.

[TGJB]

\"It\'s so simple to take a handful of bicarbonate or something with baking soda and throw it in the feed tub\".

Yeah. Exactly. That\'s the problem.

Update on my Freedom Of Information requests for the TCO2 test results:

New York is going to give them to us, but claims they don\'t have them organized and compiled in any form, so we are going to have to deal with (and match up) about 3,000 tags and test results.

California, believe it or not, actually has a state law forbidding giving out the information. I\'m working on coming at that a little diferently. By the way, as I think I mentioned, I finally got to look at the study Rick Arthur et al did (he sent it to me as well when he heard about my request for the data), and it covers half of what I am trying to do-- it proves that increases in TCO2 levels BELOW THE SANCTION LEVEL have a significant effect on performance, and that there are significant differences in those levels by trainer. Part two is getting the names of the trainers with high CO2 made public.

Kentucky has been the funniest, so far. They tried to give me a quick no, but when I shot down their reasons and let them know I had a lawyer working with me, they said they would look at it again. That was about 6 weeks ago, I\'m still waiting. I might publish that exchange some time, it was pretty funny (they said they were concerned about \"doctor/patient/client privilege\").

[colt]

...\"they said they were concerned about \"doctor/patient/client privilege\"...I laughed so hard when I saw this that I almost cried...this is classic...

[TGJB]

You are not the only one. When the smoke clears, if my lawyer okays it, I\'ll post the whole exchange.

[razzle]

Alm,

It\'s good to see a post from you.  I couldn\'t help but think of your previous posts when I read the comments from Jack Van Berg in last week\'s NY Post article.  He accurately echoed your sentiments about the impotence of the legit stables. Little by little, the naysayers on these boards,and elsewhere,are coming around to realize the effects that juicing has been having as we grieve the continued erosion of our pastime.

There should be an Eclipse Award for the trainer with the most creative response to a juice positive.  The one you mentioned about \"only injecting on the farm\" or \"somebody tampering with the feed\" or \"environmental contaminants\" wouldn\'t get it.

[TGJB]

Razzle-- I\'m going to leave that post up, but don\'t come back here any more. This is at least the second time you have spewed venom at me from a distance, then shortly thereafter came over here as though butter wouldn\'t melt in your mouth. You are not welcome here, anything you post will come down.

[Chuckles_the_Clown2]

Those horses are very sensitive about word getting out which pharmaceuticals they are prescribed. Makes them feel \"naked\", like their privacy is violated.

TGJB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> \"It\'s so simple to take a handful of bicarbonate
> or something with baking soda and throw it in the
> feed tub\".
>
> Yeah. Exactly. That\'s the problem.
>
> Update on my Freedom Of Information requests for
> the TCO2 test results:
>
> New York is going to give them to us, but claims
> they don\'t have them organized and compiled in any
> form, so we are going to have to deal with (and
> match up) about 3,000 tags and test results.
>
> California, believe it or not, actually has a
> state law forbidding giving out the information.
> I\'m working on coming at that a little diferently.
> By the way, as I think I mentioned, I finally got
> to look at the study Rick Arthur et al did (he
> sent it to me as well when he heard about my
> request for the data), and it covers half of what
> I am trying to do-- it proves that increases in
> TCO2 levels BELOW THE SANCTION LEVEL have a
> significant effect on performance, and that there
> are significant differences in those levels by
> trainer. Part two is getting the names of the
> trainers with high CO2 made public.
>
> Kentucky has been the funniest, so far. They tried
> to give me a quick no, but when I shot down their
> reasons and let them know I had a lawyer working
> with me, they said they would look at it again.
> That was about 6 weeks ago, I\'m still waiting. I
> might publish that exchange some time, it was
> pretty funny (they said they were concerned about
> \"doctor/patient/client privilege\").

[marcus]

ctc , maybe ask those horses again in a few days after they\'ve had a little time to get used to the idea  - one wag only for yes , two for no ...

[sighthound]

Jerry, I hope this is gone about in the most optimal and basic scientific manner - that is, those analyzing the information are blinded to the trainers and horses names.  Have someone else not directly involved assign trainers and horses ID numbers.

Then the results stand up to scrutiny regarding objectivity.

Let the results lead you to conclusions - don\'t let conclusions lead you to results.

[miff]

Equally important is how the higher levels performed, i.e do they win?? get in the number more often?.Posting the sheets for high level runners would also be some confirmation of what you believe re the milkshake move up trainers.


I\'m still strongly of the opinion that milkshakes alone are not even close in performance enhancement to the magic bullet.


Mike

[Chuckles_the_Clown2]

It\'s not carbonates alone. That\'s only 1/2 the equation. However, it would be very nice to have carbon level data to see how horses fair when carboned up near the violation threshold. How, their performance changes when the carbon reading is further removed from that threshold. It would be very scientific.

miff Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Equally important is how the higher levels
> performed, i.e do they win?? get in the number
> more often?.Posting the sheets for high level
> runners would also be some confirmation of what
> you believe re the milkshake move up trainers.
>
>
> I\'m still strongly of the opinion that milkshakes
> alone are not even close in performance
> enhancement to the magic bullet.
>
>
> Mike

[rosewood]

The Magic Bullet being

[docicu3]

TGJB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> \"It\'s so simple to take a handful of bicarbonate
> or something with baking soda and throw it in the
> feed tub\".
>
> Yeah. Exactly. That\'s the problem.
>
> Update on my Freedom Of Information requests for
> the TCO2 test results:
>
> New York is going to give them to us, but claims
> they don\'t have them organized and compiled in any
> form, so we are going to have to deal with (and
> match up) about 3,000 tags and test results.
>
> California, believe it or not, actually has a
> state law forbidding giving out the information.
> I\'m working on coming at that a little diferently.
> By the way, as I think I mentioned, I finally got
> to look at the study Rick Arthur et al did (he
> sent it to me as well when he heard about my
> request for the data), and it covers half of what
> I am trying to do-- it proves that increases in
> TCO2 levels BELOW THE SANCTION LEVEL have a
> significant effect on performance, and that there
> are significant differences in those levels by
> trainer. Part two is getting the names of the
> trainers with high CO2 made public.
>
> Kentucky has been the funniest, so far. They tried
> to give me a quick no, but when I shot down their
> reasons and let them know I had a lawyer working
> with me, they said they would look at it again.
> That was about 6 weeks ago, I\'m still waiting. I
> might publish that exchange some time, it was
> pretty funny (they said they were concerned about
> \"doctor/patient/client privilege\").

I might be wrong about this one but you could probably let Ky. know that the H.I.P.A. legislation probably doesn\'t extend to the equine population.  OMG they didn\'t really say that did they?

[sighthound]

Obviously HIPPA doesn\'t apply to animals.

The question is if the public has the right to access medical information about an animal, when no statute of KY State Law has been violated.