Race Shapes?

[jimbo66]

Let me climb up on my \"high horse\" for a moment.  THis is a classic example of the trainers and horsemen having no regard for the customer.  sorry guys, but the customers for horse racing are not just the owners, it is the gambling public.  Without us, there is no horse racing revenue.  Not sure horse racing survives here under the middle east conditions where they race for pride and glory and no gambling to fund the sport.  

The majority of gamblers, as pointed out by the handle or lack thereof, think synthetics are for the birds.  The \"safety\" issue, while sounding very politically correct, doesn\'t seem to have statistically proven itself out.  

This comment from Hofmans reflecting many trainers reminds me of Mullins comments about the stupid gamblers out there.  We need to do what what any good consumer does in this situation, stay away in droves from betting on these garbage surfaces.  If they won\'t adjust their thinking to reflect the demand of their customers, we need to make them pay the price.  There are still plenty of dirt tracks out there to bet.  Bet those tracks.

I just find it unfathomable that we are holding two consecutive breeders cups in a row at Santa Anita.  Has to be one of the worst decisions, in a long line of bad decisions, by the racing industry.

I, for one, like guessing at which owners are \"juicing\" their horses, than guessing at which horses will run on poly.  

Shit, at least the juicers usually follow a pattern.  Expect a move up when Dutrow, Levine or Mullins claims a horse.

Anybody really know which horses are going to move up on poly?

[fkach]

\"Anybody really know which horses are going to move up on poly?\"

The ones I hate. ;-)

[miff]

Jim,

You have touched on the heart of the racing problem from a players perspective. The customer, i.e gamblers,have no platform or organization to speak from in unity. An attempt to organize players was made and basically failed.Players are either casual about their gripes or ambivolent. Whales are either silent, under the radar or too busy to pass up a perceived opportunity.

The guy at NTRA, Walthrop(or something)sounds like an empty suit.In NY, a group of about 18 players(app $65 million annual handle) approached Bill Nader SVP at Nyra a few years ago with concerns. Bill was very attentive and receptive and things began to go forward until he left and the NYRA franchise mess ensued.

Until the players, ahem gamblers, are somewhat united and represented by a credible spokesman,clueless racetrack execs and trainers will ignore the occasional isolated outburst.Said Richard Mandella recently something like, \"just because people bet on these races we have to hear about the synth surface being too slow or this or that\" Could Richard Mandella be any more clueless. Pssst Richard, pipe down the gamblers may not bet any more and you won\'t have a job. F-king idiot!


Mike

[richiebee]

miff Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

 
> The guy at NTRA, Walthrop(or something)sounds like
> an empty suit.

I am not sure that you spelled his name right, but you accurately described
his manner of dress. And the empty suit is probably accompanied by a clip-
on tie.

Here is a man who has stated that he wants to attract young people to the game.
Young people who probably are working their asses off to repay student loans,
if they are lucky enough to have any jobs at all.

So while we are recruiting these \"millenials\", lets forget all about the 50-60
somethings who have both leisure time and disposable income.

A large part of the problem is that some of the people with powerful voices--
Steve Crist and Jerry Brown ie-- would suffer business losses if they attacked
the Racing establishment. A \"boycott\" or \"buycott\" would similarly not be good
for the business of DRF or TG.

The quality of Racing continues to decrease, especially in NY and Cal. But there
are so many new toys for gamblers-- handicapping contests, internet wagering,
new multiple race gimmicks,rebates, dime supers, etc, that gamblers are almost
distracted from the poor quality of racing.

[ronwar]

The gate guys were mask at the end of the meet.  Nothing will change their mind like a big fat law suit!  That stuff can\'t be healthy to ingest all day, for human or horse.  It is just a matter of time boys.  It will go the way of lead paint and asbestos.

[ronwar]

http://www.ntra.com/

$25 and you can join

[TGJB]

Richie-- I think things are going to happen that may change your views about some of the individuals in this business. Having gone back and forth with Waldrop extensively about the drug issue, I think he does have a clue, but as I said to him, he\'s in a bad spot-- high visibility without the power to enforce change.

I would not be surprised if the Horseplayers Coalition announced today was Waldrop\'s baby. We\'ll see where that goes. He has some ideas about getting the NTRA involved in the drug situation that might dovetail nicely with the coalition, and/or with some ideas of mine.

As for me, various things (including but not limited to new products and branding and expanding this company) have caused me not to go forward with the boycott idea, not because it would hurt my business (the internet has made it so the tracks can\'t really hurt me, they need me more than I need them). I\'m still interested in collective coercion, after I get done with various projects, and see what the NTRA and specific other institutions do, I\'m going to look at it. I wonder if the powers-that-be realize what a Pandoras Box this coalition is. Join it, guys.

[rosewood]

Waldrip not only empty suit

Jerry,

You are to be commended for your passion about cleaning up the sport and I believe that you are correct that TG is immune from any retribution.  However you and I both know that Milkshakes are not the most serious drug violation in the sport at the present time.

According to the NTRA site; the Coalation will:
           \"seek legislative and regulatory solutions to tax and business issues\"
           
            \"send grass roots communications to members of Congress using STYLIZED    
             MESSAGE POINTS\"

What the f**K is a stylized message point?

One more gutless organization will not cure what ails racing today.Beware if you want the guvment to take over......

What is the purpose of NTRA now?

What is the purpose of the Racing Authorities in Cali, Kentucky and New York now.

Jeff Mullins and Doug O\"Neil have pretty much told authorities to kiss their ass out West and looks as if Biancobra has done the same in Bluegrass country.

If Steve Crist is so money hungry that his only concern for this sport is his take on his Pic 6\"s then he is no friend.

[smalltimer]

TGJB,
Couple of ideas here.
Anytime a person or a group of people want to try to get their point across, its best to have a plan, or consider suggestions.
The Coalition at least represents a start, and may really impact the situation.
For someone who wants to take the time for a project, I would offer the following suggestion:
Look at the Keeneland Result Charts from last Sunday, 4-20-08.  I\'ll give you one example of how horseplayers can help make their own case.
7f poly race, the mutuel pool was $ 185K, with an additional $ 252K in exotics, totally @ $ 430K.  
Turf race at Keeneland, mutuel pool $ 457K, with $ 673K in exotics.  That\'s say a little something there, right?
I\'m not gonna take the time and look at what KEE keeps in the straight action vs. the exotics, so I\'m just using some easy numbers here.
Say 18% on the straight action and 23% on the exotics.  
(Don\'t jump my case here, I\'m just illustrating).

In the 7f poly race, the track \"keeps\" say $ 93K.  (185K X 18%)+ 252K X .23%) =
@ $ 93,000.00 for the track.

The turf race, the track \"keeps\" $ 237K.  (457K X 18%) + ( 673K X 23%) =
@ $ 237,000 for the track.  

Two different races at the same track on different surfaces and the turf exceeds the poly race handle/interest by...how much?  A bunch.

Do you suppose this is true at Santa Anita also?  Take a peek at their mutuels and see what you find.

I know, I intermingled the P3 pool.  I know there are other costs associated with each of the races, but my point being..why help the track generate large profits in the turf races, when so many gamblers want the artificial to go away?
Now I know guys are gonna say, what about the Bluegrass and the $ 1M plus handle?  I know that.  Gamblers across the country are still gonna play that big race, so are virtually all the fans at the other tracks around the country.
As I type this, I know this is ripe for contradiction or criticism, but I\'m throwing it out to at another way of looking at things.

If you don\'t like Joe Blow\'s Supermarket, you don\'t have to shop there.  If you want to impact their cash register, you go in, pick the cherries, ad items, all their loss leaders and hit the checkstand.  It works for your wallet and in a small way impacts their bottom line.

That\'s it.  A realistic, methodical plan on how to impact the bottom lines of racetracks seems the logical way to go. If Keeneland is non-profit, as many tracks are, it still impacts their purse structure, their ability to bring in more and bigger stables.  I know lesser quality of horses. I know, almost without exception, the powers-that-be, could care less about the gambler,  I don\'t need a lecture on that aspect. Etc. etc, etc.
Have at it Chuckles.

[congaree1]

Smalltimer,

Most rebate shops, do not take Keeneland. Most, if not all major players use rebate shops. Keeneland is not seeing any of that cash. I have been with RGS for almost 7 years, in that time keeneland has never been offered. Just something for thought.