Moss Advocates Changing Triple Crown Spacing

[Silver Charm]

Can it happen by next Saturday?

The Sport needs to look like it is doing something to hold on to fans

The Signal Lockouts are a total mess. Purses getting slashed 20% and 30%.

The people with the most to lose are killing the Sport themselves.

[BitPlayer]

I think a true national regulatory body is a non-starter.  Too many states; too many regulators; too many horsemen with diverse interests.

What makes more sense to me is to have the Graded Stakes Committee and the Breeders Cup take action with respect to their high-end races.  Those are the races that get the exposure, satisfy the egos, and produce the stallions.  What works in terms of limiting medication use and enhancing drug testing in graded stakes isn\'t necessarily practical with respect to 7yo $5,000 claimers.

Of course, the people who control the Graded Stakes Committee and the Breeders Cup may be the people with the most to lose from dramatic change, so I\'m not holding my breath.  They\'ll probably just keep announcing the formation of new committees.

[fkach]

>What makes more sense to me is to have the Graded Stakes Committee and the Breeders Cup take action with respect to their high-end races. Those are the races that get the exposure, satisfy the egos, and produce the stallions. What works in terms of limiting medication use and enhancing drug testing in graded stakes isn\'t necessarily practical with respect to 7yo $5,000 claimers. <

I think you hit the nail on the head. It would be better if we could eliminate all race day drug use, but the economics would make it very difficult to sell that in the short term. However, if there was no drug use allowed for Graded races, the complaint about the economics sort of evaporates because the people that own horses like that don\'t have as much to complain about. They race their horses lightly to begin with and they typically have way more financial resources anyway. That might help the breed over the long term (drug free horses winning major stakes and passing soundness on in their genes) and with general perceptions that at least something is being done as a start.

[richiebee]

Listen I do not care if you run the Derby on Passover, the Preakness on Rosh
Hashanah and the Belmont on Yom Kippur, if you change from the currently
existing format it would be insulting to some great champions if you called
this new \"spaced out\" series of races the \"Triple Crown\".

Some would contend that Smarty Jones, all of four years ago, was a racerider
away from winning the Triple Crown. And Curlin competed in all 3 legs of the
traditional Triple Crown, came back to beat up on older horses and has come
back as a 4YO.

The idea should not be to change Racing to accommodate the diluted gene pool
(ie permissive medication and synthetic surfaces); a better idea is to get back
to breeding durable horses.

[P-Dub]

RB,
No sport is as dependant on statistics as baseball.  Yet, there have been numerous changes to the game. Everyone knows Maris\' 61 homers were accomplished in a different manner than Babe Ruth\'s 60. Doesn\'t mean adding 8 games to the schedule was wrong. Same thng with other sports. Rule changes have affected the game from previous eras, yet fans understand the differences.

We bitch and moan all of the time about how racing has its head in the sand,  won\'t make an effort to improve its product,  can\'t garner any positive publicity and grow the sport. Yet, here you are bemoaning change to the sport. We might insult past champions. Boo hoo. According too whom??  You and the Clown??

Lets keep everything the same, continue having poor exposure, a declining fan base, etc... Horseracing has never been healthier, lets leave it alone.

[richiebee]

PD:

Yes Racing has problems. Yes it is time for changes.

Changing the \"spacing\" of the Triple Crown is not a solution to a problem,
it is a reaction to a problem.

OK I\'ll play along briefly because I like to explore both sides. Lets say you
space the races logically and put them in 3 venues where they can be marketed
properly.

Maybe change the distance of some of the races? And I agree that having the last
race later in the year will segue more nicely into the BC.

Still, the decision makers would have a lot of work to do. Co ordinate TV
coverage (one national network with competent coverage which begins before the
series and continues to some extent between races; one cable premium cable
network which gives these races close coverage). I\'ll say this for the nth
time: tie the winning race numbers or combination into a lottery; somehow tie
the races to a pick 3?; or maybe expose the tourists to futures wagering?.
Lots of possibilities to draw in the mainstream.

Just please dont call it the Triple Crown. Call it 3 races NTRA Hopes Will Save
Racing. Or something.

Now the baseball comparison. There are so many variables in something like the
home run record-- stadium dimensions, strength of pitchers, juiced ball, juiced
players,intentional walks etc.

Racing has had a series called the Triple Crown which for the most part has
been run in the same \"stadiums\" for over a century, and I do not believe there
is anything in American professional team sports which compares to it. Colts
who have won the Triple Crown during my \"watch\" (Secretariat, Affirmed and
Seattle Slew) all had their greatness confirmed versus older horses or as
stalions or both.

Chance to market Racing better? Maybe.

A change which will help improve Racing?

On a separate manner,and without making this an East v West deal, what is the
explanation for the very short weekday fields at the Cal tracks?

[P-Dub]

Fair enough Richie, you make many valid points.  But between the drug issues and the breeding philosophies,  the horses don\'t seem to have the same durability as the greats of the past.  Thats why I don\'t have a problem with making changes to the TC series.

As far as the short fields out here,  I don\'t know. I have a good friend that has a stable,  I\'ll ask him.

Love reading your stuff, sometimes I get a little fired up when I have an opinion. Must be the Italian bloodlines.

[richiebee]

P-Dub:

I understand the Italian thing.

I\'m Russian/Hungarian, but when I was growing up on Staten Island it was
basically Italian/Irish. Now like most neighborhoods in New York City, we
have people from all continents except I guess Antarctica.

Growing up on Staten Island in the 70s and 80s meant that you thought
that \"The Godfather\" and \"Goodfellas\" were documentaries.

Before Racing\'s problems are solved, Racing needs a \"Commish\" a \"cappo di tutti
capi\", if you will-- like Pete Rozelle or Bud Selig or the NHL\'s Gary Bettman
(not a bad name for a Racing \"czar\" there). Even a 2 or 3 person committee
would be suitable, but Racing and Breeding are complex businesses and this is
not a situation where you could take someone and say \"Well,(s)he was very
successful in other businesses so...\" Someone with specific knowledge of the
game and a proper grasp of the sense of urgency is needed to take control.

To me that is where all the problem solving starts.

The racing and breeding industries need coordination on a national level
before the problems are identified and addressed.

[Chuckles_the_Clown2]

When you boil their argument down to its essence, the argument is:

\"You must accommodate our deficient horses.\"

As you noted Richie, changing the spacing does not address the root problem, it merely addresses the symptoms of the ill bred and over medicated horses. The root issue is the soundness of an animal that can\'t race on the timetables that the greats of the past raced on. They will want four weeks between races this time and the next time six weeks between races while they continue to breed deficient race horses. Ultimately, they will want to shorten the races too.

Modifying the timetable is raising the white flag. Peat Moss is a surrender monkey. He doesn\'t have the stomach for a righteous fight. Poly Turf and now a serious suggestion we must tinker with the timing of the Triple Crown? This is where we must take our stand. I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me Affirmed or give me death.

Besides, we don\'t want it so easy that any turnip farmer can predict whether a horse will bounce or not. This is our realm, why would we want to level the bounce playing field.

richiebee Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Listen I do not care if you run the Derby on
> Passover, the Preakness on Rosh
> Hashanah and the Belmont on Yom Kippur, if you
> change from the currently
> existing format it would be insulting to some
> great champions if you called
> this new \"spaced out\" series of races the \"Triple
> Crown\".
>
> Some would contend that Smarty Jones, all of four
> years ago, was a racerider
> away from winning the Triple Crown. And Curlin
> competed in all 3 legs of the
> traditional Triple Crown, came back to beat up on
> older horses and has come
> back as a 4YO.
>
> The idea should not be to change Racing to
> accommodate the diluted gene pool
> (ie permissive medication and synthetic surfaces);
> a better idea is to get back
> to breeding durable horses.

[miff]

From a time frame, the tight 5 week set up keeps the TC in constant vogue within the press, industry and fan base.Thinking that Barbaro or any other horse would not have broken down with more time in between starts is pure voodoo.

Over medication and a contaminated gene pool is the number 1 culprit by far.


Mike

[alm]

What do you mean by a \'contaminated\' gene pool?

[miff]

Al,

Contaminated with unsoundness being thrown by over medicated/steroid laden stallions and broodmares.


Mike

[Silver Charm]

Arthur Hancock in the next to last paragraph calls for Congressional involvement. There is an LA Times story today and another coming tomorrow outlining all of the problems and how no one wants to do anything about it.

Even ESPN one of racings biggest supporters is coming out with first the Moss story and now the Forde story. This one is pretty good also.  

The sound of silence coming from the industry tells the story. The solution is the Goodell solution. Say there is nothing wrong and hope it goes away.

Bring on Arlen Specter........

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/columns/story?columnist=forde_pat&id=3395758&sportCat=horse&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab5pos1

[Barry Irwin]

Like a Republican is going to help horse racing. Have you not seen what the Elephants did with Clemmens. They took his side you nutcase!

[Silver Charm]

Below is an excerpt from the LA Times story and below that is the link. If people have a problem with these things get a hold of Dwyre, Forde and Moss. They wrote it and I am just repeating it.  


This year\'s Triple Crown races feature at least three trainers who have served suspensions for having horses test positive for Mepivacaine: Steve Asmussen, who trained Curlin, last year\'s Preakness champion; Todd Pletcher, whose Rags to Riches won the Belmont Stakes last year; and Rick Dutrow Jr., whose Big Brown won this year\'s Kentucky Derby.

According to the Assn. of Racing Commissioners International, Dutrow has been fined every year since 2000 for a horse doping situation. In \'03, one of his horses tested positive for Mepivacaine. He has served various suspension times, ranging from 14 to 60 days for these violations.


http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/la-sp-horsesone15-2008may15,0,2538730.column