Better living through chemicals

[TGJB]

Michael-- there are an awful lot of comments I could make about that list of times (like the differences in dirt and grass surfaces that have been discussed in terms of figures), but I\'ll just ask you a question-- do you think that the fillies got 3 seconds (10 points) faster overnight in the 70s, are that they let the course get hard? That was the same time they were going with a 2 1/2 inch cushion on dirt.

Track superintendents have been trying to make tracks safer for years now, and when dealing with both dirt and grass, that means making them less hard, and slower.

As for CD, do your own research. I did it for NY, and I\'m not going to chase down the records for every track in the country to satisfy you. But what do you think, I happened to get it right when I made figures for NY, but not the others? NY is on the money, all the others are off by many points?

[sighthound]

>> And anyway, we\'ve little or no idea of what else trainers in previous generations were giving their horses.

Sure we do.  Cocaine, morphine, heroin (that\'s why it\'s called \"horse\"), amphetamines, caffine, arsenic, collodial silver, digitalis ... whatever was
available at the corner pharmacists for humans, horses were given it, too, if the trainer was so inclined.

The concept of athletes - human, equine, dogs, whatever - running drug-free is relatively new.

It\'s interesting to read the Wikipedia (i.e.: any loon can author) entry on stanozolol use in humans, but I\'d not choose Wikipedia as a reliable primary reference for drug education.

I would also point out drugs commonly do not act the same in different species.

And, to reiterate a point that is nearly always completely ignored when lay people talk about pharmacology, there is a vast difference between the pharmacologic effects seen with \"proper use\", and the effects seen with \"abuse\".

A drug can be a miracle when used appropriately, and a killer when abused.  

If there is abuse, you stop the abuse - you don\'t eliminate the drug and withhold it from those that need it or from proper use
 
By the way, Winstrol is no way comparable to EPO regarding red blood cell production, I don\'t care how much of it you give to a horse or dog.

So in the interest of higher accuracy, here\'s part of the veterinary drug insert for stanozolol.  Much non-applicable is deleted, and the highlights are mine.

--------------
Stanozolol

Prescriber Highlights

Anabolic steroid

Contraindications: pregnant animals, breeding stallions, food animals. Extreme caution: cats, hepatic dysfunction, hypercalcemia, history of myocardial infarction, pituitary insufficiency, prostate carcinoma, mammary carcinoma, benign prostatic hypertrophy and during the nephrotic stage of nephritis. Caution: cardiac and renal dysfunction with enhanced fluid and electrolyte monitoring.

 Adverse Effects: Potentially high incidence of hepatotoxicity in cats. Other possible effects: sodium, calcium, potassium, water, chloride, and phosphate retention; hepatotoxicity, behavioral (androgenic) changes and reproductive abnormalities (oligospermia, estrus suppression)

Category \"X\" for pregnancy; teratogenicity outweighs any possible benefit

Controlled substance in the USA

 Drug Interactions; lab interactions

Pharmacology

Stanozolol possess the actions of other anabolic agents. It may be less androgenic than other anabolics that are routinely used in veterinary medicine, however.   Refer to the discussion in the boldenone monograph for more information.

Uses/Indications

Labeled indications for the stanozolol product Winstrol®-V (Winthrop/Upjohn) include  \"... to improve appetite, promote weight gain, and increase strength and vitality...\"  in dogs, cats and horses.    The manufacturer also states that: \"Anabolic therapy is intended primarily as an adjunct to other specific and supportive therapy, including nutritional therapy.\"

Like nandrolone, stanozolol has been used to treat anemia of chronic disease. Because stanozolol has been demonstrated to enhance fibrinolysis after parenteral injection, it may be efficacious in the treatment of feline aortic thromboembolism or in the treatment of thrombosis in nephrotic syndrome. However, at present, clinical studies and/or experience are apparently lacking for this indication.

Pharmacokinetics

No specific information was located for this agent. It is generally recommended that the injectable suspension be dosed on a weekly basis in both small animals and horses.

Contraindications/Precautions

Stanozolol is contraindicated in pregnant animals and in breeding stallions and should not be administered to horses intended for food purposes. Because of reported hepatotoxicity associated with this drug in cats, it should be used in this species with extreme caution.

The manufacturer recommends using stanozolol cautiously in patients with cardiac and renal dysfunction and with enhanced fluid and electrolyte monitoring.

In humans, anabolic agents are also contraindicated in patients with hepatic dysfunction, hypercalcemia, patients with a history of myocardial infarction (can cause hypercholesterolemia), pituitary insufficiency, prostate carcinoma, in selected patients with breast carcinoma, benign prostatic hypertrophy and during the nephrotic stage of nephritis.

Adverse Effects/Warnings

The manufacturer (Winthrop/Upjohn) lists as adverse effects in dogs, cats and horses only \"mild androgenic effects\" and then only when used with excessively high doses for a prolonged period of time.

[Note:  the above is true in practice, too]

One study in cats, demonstrated a very high incidence of hepatotoxicity associated with stanozolol use and the authors recommended that this drug not be used in cats until further toxicological studies are performed.

Potentially (from human data), adverse reactions of the anabolic agents in dogs and cats could include: sodium, calcium, potassium, water, chloride, and phosphate retention, hepatotoxicity, behavioral (androgenic) changes and reproductive abnormalities (oligospermia, estrus suppression).

Overdosage

No information was located for this specific agent. In humans, sodium and water retention can occur after overdosage of anabolic steroids.   It is suggested to treat supportively and monitor liver function should an inadvertent overdose be administered.

Drug Interactions

Anabolic agents as a class may potentiate the effects of anticoagulants. Monitoring of PT\'s and dosage adjustment, if necessary of the anticoagulant are recommended.

Diabetic patients receiving insulin may need dosage adjustments if anabolic therapy is added or discontinued. Anabolics may decrease blood glucose and decrease insulin requirements.

Anabolics may enhance the edema that can be associated with ACTH or adrenal steroid therapy.

Drug/Laboratory Interactions

Concentrations of protein bound iodine (PBI) can be decreased in patients receiving androgen/anabolic therapy, but the clinical significance of this is probably not important.  Androgen/anabolic agents can decrease amounts of thyroxine-binding globulin and decrease total T4 concentrations and increase resin uptake of T3 and T4. Free thyroid hormones are unaltered and, clinically, there is no evidence of dysfunction.

Both creatinine and creatine excretion can be decreased by anabolic steroids. Anabolic steroids can increase the urinary excretion of 17-ketosteroids.

Androgenic/anabolic steroids may alter blood glucose levels. Androgenic/anabolic steroids may suppress clotting factors II, V, VII, and X. Anabolic agents can affect liver function tests (BSP retention, SGOT, SGPT, bilirubin, and alkaline phosphatase).

Doses

Dogs
For anemia secondary to chronic renal failure:
2.  For anemias secondary to uremia:
As an anabolic/appetite stimulant:
For canine cognitive dysfunction:


Cats: Note: See Warnings Above
As an anabolic agent per labeled indications:
Treatment should continue for several weeks, depending on response and condition of animal. (Package Insert; Winstrol®-V --Winthrop/Upjohn)

Ferrets
Rabbits/Rodents/Pocket Pets
1.  Rabbits: As an appetite stimulant: (Ivey and Morrisey 2000)

Horses
As an anabolic agent per labeled indications:
 May repeat weekly for up to and including 4 weeks. (Package Insert; Winstrol®-V --Winthrop/Upjohn)

Sheep, Goats
For acute or subacute aflatoxicosis in ruminants:
 Do not combine with oxytetracycline therapy. (Hatch 1988)

Birds
As an anabolic agent to promote weight gain and recovery from disease:

Reptiles
1.  For most species post-surgically and in very debilitated animals:
Monitoring Parameters
----------------
1) Androgenic side effects;  2) Fluid and electrolyte status, if indicated; 3) Liver function tests if indicated; 4) RBC count, indices, if indicated; 5) Weight, appetite

[Dudley]

If you intend to imply that it is a non-issue, I refer you to these additional recent articles relevant to racing:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=waldrop+%2B+winstrol

[sighthound]

Doubtful, because an injection of Winstrol once a month doesn\'t do anything other than make the horse eat well for the week afterwards.

Oh - and increase the cost of the owners vet bill.

[TGJB]

I\'m sure the drug has many therapeutic uses for cats, dogs, and horses. My question is, is it a performance enhancer? Does it cause horses to run faster and/or run fast longer than they would without it? I\'m contrasting \"performance enhancer\" to something like Lasix, which (theoretically) just causes the horse not to bleed, and therefore allows the horse to run to its natural ability? There are probably a million drugs which can make a horse healthier without making him run faster (antibiotics, for example)-- is this one of them? Because in this context, the health of the other participants in the game (horseplayers) is a primary issue, and if they are (at the very least) not informed when a horse is given a performance enhancer, they are getting screwed. This is why we publish lasix data-- whether or not it is a performance enhancer, it affects horses ability to run, and therefore bettors wellbeing.

[miff]

Thanks Sight,

Far too many racing fans read some nonsense(like the stuff written after 8 belles was euthenized) and think that every horse is racing on illegal drugs.NYSWB(oversees drug testing for NYRA)is just perfecting a test to detect cobra venom,I believe it\'s a first.


Mike

[sighthound]

No, it\'s certainly not a non-issue.

I think the legal steroids, that are approved and necessary for use in the racehorse, must be allowable; and that allowable levels be established for race day.

The wholesale banning of them without waiting for the RMTC to establish levels was nonsensical, reactionary, and stupid.  

And I notice it was done by those with no knowledge or training in pharmacology or experience with how the drugs actually act in horses.

To eliminate this class of drugs from any use at all on the backstretch is beyond ridiculous, and bad for the health of horses.

To control levels allowable on raceday is smart.

[ajkreider]

You\'re correct of course.  My point was simply that, in particular cases, it may not be known what was given to a horse. As such, pointing to a time a horse ran in a race 40 years ago as evidence that horses are (or aren\'t) getting faster just doesn\'t count for much.

[Dudley]

RMTC established a TUE- Therapeutic Use Exemption- in states that have adopted the wholesale ban. Horses (vets) that can show cause are allowed them. Dutrow gives them to all his horses on the 15th of each month- so he says.

As to Jerry\'s point- if it\'s even a POTENTIAL performance-enhancer, it should be published.

[sighthound]

>>I\'m sure the drug has many therapeutic uses for cats, dogs, and horses. My >>question is, is it a performance enhancer?

Exactly.  It is performance-enhancing when I give one dose to a light filly the day after a hard race, so she dives into her food and feels good that next week, and continues training?  When it makes her able to race back in 4-5 weeks rather than 6-8?

Frankly, like Dutrow said, if steroids are not allowable at all, and none of his horses can suddenly continue with his once-a-month Winstrol dose (no I do not agree with doing that, btw)  - you probably are not going to see that much difference in performance from that barn (except maybe from geldings).

But what about the guys that are giving it - or one of the more powerful steroids - once a week or two to all their horses, all the time?  

That\'s abuse in my book, potentially dangerous, and certainly probably performance-enabling or even enhancing for many of those horses.  

The first needs to be allowed (not near race-day of course), the second should be eliminated, the third aggressively prevented for the safety of the horses.

And the illegal designer power-\'roids have to be detectable and eliminated.

[sighthound]

Yeah, given to all horses on the 15th isn\'t \"valid therapeutic use\" in my book.

[sighthound]

And that is the type of testing we need.

Testing is so sophisticated nowadays - we can detect nanograms, picograms (lasix as a diluent of illegal stuff in urine isn\'t applicable any more, we can find it) -  we can establish allowable levels, and illegal levels, so that no medications are permitted on raceday at levels that would be pharmacologically active.

[Dudley]

sighthound Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
 
> But what about the guys that are giving it - or
> one of the more powerful steroids - once a week or
> two to all their horses, all the time?  

I doubt Dutrow\'s revelation is the whole story of his barn. Just imo.
 
> And the illegal designer power-\'roids have to be
> detectable and eliminated.

Now you\'re talking!

[TGJB]

Sight-- we\'re basically on the same page on this. From my understanding, this is similar to the issue of Clenbuterol-- and only Califonia is testing to distinguish between therapuetic and raceday use.

But aside from the issue of whether these drugs should be legal, there is the issue of the betting public being informed, both about who is running on what, and TCO2 test levels. This kind of crap would never be accepted in the stock market. It\'s outrageous.

[BitPlayer]

Sighthound -

I\'m asking the following questions for the sake of understanding, not argument.

What is the purpose of the race-day limit?  To prevent abuse between race days?  To protect the animal from race-day effects?  To eliminate short-term performance enhancement?

I\'m reading that withdrawal times (while still being studied) are probably in the 15-30 day range.  Assuming that to be correct and that the RMTC rules are implemented, would you think that stakes-quality animals might routinely be injected shortly after a race (to aid in recovery) in anticipation of racing again 5 weeks later?  Would you think that would be appropriate, or should the animal be treated only if it shows a loss of appetite or other ill effects after the race?