Big Brown has a quarter crack

[miff]

Rose,

Don\'t know about that, he must have been speaking about a workout/blowout.Leaving him in the barn for 10 days without training his lungs is unheard of,imo.


Mike

[Rick B.]

covelj70 Wrote:
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> Rick B.  Truce and let\'s enjoy a great weekend,
> lots of good action today.

Yes, truce. You cleared it up nicely when you explained your position on Dutrow, which I have no problem with at all. I erroneously perceived a rip on BB, who obviously can\'t pick his connections, and that will always bring out my \"South Side\" (Chicago expression meaning \"bad temper\").

I apologize. Let\'s go get some at the windows today.

[fkach]

He missed Saturday and today and they are talking about not galloping again until Thursday. That\'s 5 days of missed gallops as a best case scenario. I\'m not an expert on race horse conditioning but I\'ve seen many horses over the years run sub par races when they\'ve \"just missed a few days of training\" etc.. leading up to a big race. IMO the probability of this horse running his \"A\" race in the Belmont are much lower as a result of this. IMO, the low level probability of a physical bounce is a total non event compared to missing 5 days and trying to run 12F for the first time against a potentially serious rival that\'s probably bred to peak at that distance.

[P-Dub]

Halo Fire Wrote:
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> You know, it\'s one thing when you\'re the underdog,
> a la Joe Namath. When you have the fastest horse
> and you\'re saying the rest of the crop is
> sub-par.....that\'s just bad taste.


You must have hated Ali.

[Halo Fire]

Mr. Dub,

The short answer to your question is: I\'m too young for Ali (I\'m 37). It\'s interesting that you bring up a boxing analogy, though. I happen to be a huge Floyd Mayweather Jr. fan. He\'s the most talented fighter I\'ve ever seen and he CAN\'T STOP talking.

The issue I have with Dutrow is pretty simple. If BB wins, is he a worthy ambassador for our beautifull sport? Is he going to be the \"new face\" of racing in the modern era? Let\'s face it, if BB wins, for the next 30+ years an outside media source will want an interview with Dutrow every time they do a triple crown piece. Does anyone think steroids will be brought up? Will BB be the \"Barry Bonds\" triple crown winner who ran against bums?

He says this year\'s crop of three-year-olds are less than stellar (which undermines his own horse\'s accomplishment\'s). Are they or are they just \"clean\"?

I\'m too young so I ask you, did Lucen Lauren or Billy Turner speak like this? I know Laz didn\'t speak subversive about Alydar.

[sighthound]

Halo, it\'s said that Secretariat was on plenty of Equipoise.  Sir Barton was supposedly a horse created and sustained by drugs.  More recently, milkshaking was legal, no limits on bute, no testing for other drugs, etc.

When people pine for \"the good old days\", and think that horses used to be \"sturdier\" ... well, it\'s all relative, and I think it\'s good the horses are now, at least, being treated by 20th century medicine, and hopefully 21st century for the more forward-thinking trainers.  

And most of the drug abuse from decades past is waning.

Drug abuse is less than it\'s ever been in racehorses right now.  THIS is the cleanest age in the sport.  

More to do?  Sure, plenty.  But look at what\'s been eliminated.

[Mall]

Brown ran with a quarter crack in the Derby and Preakness:http://www.thorograph.com/phorum/read.php?1,42686,42714#msg-42714

It\'s not clear from Haskin\'s piece, which does nothing more than parrot what Dutrow said, if this is a new quarter crack and/or there\'s been some problem with the acrylic patches Brown wore in both races.

Brown was severely run down after the Preakness, so much so that on both of his rear legs Brown bled through the patch under the vet wrap, the vet wrap, and the patch outside the vet wrap. However, Dutrow didn\'t mention it during the news conference, and heaven forbid that one of the equine \"journalists\" who attended might ask him an actual question, so I guess it\'s not news.

[TGJB]

I can\'t speak to Sir Barton. But I can speak to the time when I\'ve been making figures (early 80s on). The last decade, and especially 2001 on, is BY FAR the worst it has been during that time in terms of number of trainers using performance enhancers, and amount they are moving the horses up. Any sophisticated (pro) handicapper will tell you the same thing. We can tell by the way large groups of horses trained by certain individuals all improve dramatically in terms of TG figures at the same time, or upon going to that trainer (with statistically significant samplings). I\'m not talking about winning percentages-- I\'m talking about using something far more sophisticated to measure performance, sophisticated enough that the powers-that-be in one major jurisdiction have asked me to tip them off when it looks like someone is doing something.

We are talking about 15-20 trainers at major tracks nationally instantly improving horses 4-6 points, or 6-10 lengths at a mile.

[ronwar]

I might get some fire after this, but I like Dutrow.  In the sense he\'s genuine.  Doesn\'t pretend to be anything than what he is.  Which turns out to be what people dislike.  In the season of fake smiles, scripted answers, and baby kissing, he is authentic.  What ya see is what ya get, which is refreshing, at least to me.  I\'m a Mayweather fan as well, but know plenty that can\'t stand the guy.  He\'s a personality, just as Dutrow is and sometimes what makes sports, all sports so intriguing is not only the ones you love to root for, but the ones you love to root against.  I\'m glad that he\'s not just another stale suit with the same statements from the trainers handbook on interviews.

[ronwar]

Here is an article on the \"run down\" problems http://hoofcare.blogspot.com/2008/05/big-brown-arrives-at-belmont-with-run.html

[jmetro]

Mall Wrote:
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> Brown ran with a quarter crack in the Derby and
> Preakness:http://www.thorograph.com/phorum/read.ph
> p?1,42686,42714#msg-42714
>
> It\'s not clear from Haskin\'s piece, which does
> nothing more than parrot what Dutrow said, if this
> is a new quarter crack and/or there\'s been some
> problem with the acrylic patches Brown wore in
> both races.
>
> Brown was severely run down after the Preakness,
> so much so that on both of his rear legs Brown
> bled through the patch under the vet wrap, the vet
> wrap, and the patch outside the vet wrap. However,
> Dutrow didn\'t mention it during the news
> conference, and heaven forbid that one of the
> equine \"journalists\" who attended might ask him an
> actual question, so I guess it\'s not news.


Wouldn\'t the stallion deal have fallen through, or at the very least be put on hold, if this was truely the case, especially considering the run down remarks following the Preakness?

[sighthound]

How many of those trainers are turning up with drug positives?

[Uncle Buck]

The NYRA would indeed kinda seem like the Mayor of Amityville in the movie Jaws in this sense. \"Brownie will run - we\'re only talking a 5/8ths inch little crack...AND...those beaches will be open on the 4th of July! As you know...Amityville means friendship!\"

LOL

[SoCalMan2]

ronwar Wrote:
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> I might get some fire after this, but I like
> Dutrow.  In the sense he\'s genuine.  Doesn\'t
> pretend to be anything than what he is.  Which
> turns out to be what people dislike.  In the
> season of fake smiles, scripted answers, and baby
> kissing, he is authentic.  What ya see is what ya
> get, which is refreshing, at least to me.  I\'m a
> Mayweather fan as well, but know plenty that can\'t
> stand the guy.  He\'s a personality, just as Dutrow
> is and sometimes what makes sports, all sports so
> intriguing is not only the ones you love to root
> for, but the ones you love to root against.  I\'m
> glad that he\'s not just another stale suit with
> the same statements from the trainers handbook on
> interviews.

This is interesting.  I, too, admit to being charmed by Dutrow and his personality which I find positive, refreshing, and charismatic.  The conundrum is to reconcile that very positive image with two very negative potential things that, if proven, are deplorable -- those being that he may cheat to move horses up and he might lie to deceive the public or others who in good faith rely on his comments.

To steal a device from TGJB, we are only looking at one side of the house when we say how much we like Dutrow.  While that side that we see may look great, we honestly cannot see the other sides of the house.  In this case, the difference may be even more stark, but we do not truly know.

[SoCalMan2]

jimbo66 Wrote:
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> Emotions are running high as might be expected
> with a 30 year triple crown hiatus being
> threatened a potentially great horse trained by a
> trainer with a big mouth and who has a track
> record of having been caught cheating.
>
> Covelj,
>
> I know you already promised to shut up for the
> weekend, but that certainly isn\'t necessary.  But
> you should realize that the horse not running
> doesn\'t prove a thing or make you right about
> anything.  Last time I checked, this game involves
> gambling.  For you to \"win\", he needs to run, and
> you beat him.  Then you can come up on the board
> and talk about how you were one of the first and
> loudest to take an anti-Big Brown in the Belmont
> stance/position.  And by the way, Dutrow may be a
> jerk, and I hate him as much as the next guy.  But
> the godzilla comment is NOT classless.  It is
> mildly witty, but certainly not classless.
> Nothing wrong with it.  His overall arrogant,
> classless nature, is a different story.
>
> Rick B,
>
> Grave dancer is a bit harsh though, isn\'t it!!
>
> Let\'s get the horse healthy and let him run.  Then
> we can all see.  Bounce, or no bounce.  Triple
> Crown or not good enough, like the rest of them
> the past 30 years.  
>
> Nobody wins if he skips the belmont!


Good Post, Jimbo!!

I think we all know that there is only one grave dancer on this board -- it is the same guy who shed no tears when Barbaro went down and has been openly rooting for Dennis of Cork to die on the track.

There used to be a different guy who ended his posts either here or on Ragozin\'s board (or maybe both) with the sign off -- \"May they all come home safely\" or \"Bring them all home safely\" or words to that effect.  I would think that this is something we can all agree on no matter what our pecuniary interests are. As far as I can tell, there are only two entities rooting for horses to die on track -- PETA and the only true grave dancer on this board.

In the spirit of trying to help us all keep perspective,

May the all come home safely,

SCM2