Those charmed by and defending cheaters

[fkach]

>Speaking of trainers, is Catalano giving his horses virgin olive oil or pasta, winning at somewhere near 70% at Arlington. <

What is this some kind of version of the equine Zone Diet? ;-)

THere is something to be said for olive oil, fish oil etc.... My entire digestive system improved massively when I started supplementing. Maybe his horses are more regular, have fewer cramps, and no longer get indigestion, heartburn, and acid reflux on race day. ;-)

[smalltimer]

kfach,
Regarding Catalano at Arlington.  He\'s always claiming for Frank Calabrese.  He claims for 10K and runs him right back down your throat at 10K, or brings \'em back for 7500.00  I can give you more specifics, if you\'re interested.

Raw numbers on Catalano on first time off the claim:
Last 30 days  6 claims, 4 wins;
Last 90 days 13 claims 7 wins;
Last 6 months 20 claims 11 wins;
Last Year 83 claims 32 wins;
Last 2 years 163 claims 55 wins.  

He\'s a minimum 34% in all claim categories, and his ITM % is right at 70%.

I\'ll do something this afternoon of Dick Dutrow, Scott Lake, Tom Amoss, Bruce Levine, Steve Krebs.  Just overview type stuff, nothing in-depth.

[smalltimer]

If you compare Catalano\'s numbers on the first time off the claim, versus the first time he takes over on a training switch, he\'s even higher percentage.

Last 30 days 4 takeovers, 3 wins, 100% ITM;
Last 90 days 12 takeovers, 8 wins, 92% ITM;
Last 6 months 17 takeovers, 10 wins, 82% ITM;
Last Year 34 takeovers, 19 wins, 82% ITM,
Last 2 years 58 takeovers, 26 wins, 79% ITM.

Catalano is obviously one guy you want to be careful playing against in most spots on a trainer change.  He is, however, a guy you can play Pick 3\'s and Pick 4\'s with if you like others in the sandwich races with attractive odds.

Just an observation.

[29Pearls]

How would Gary Contessa compares to Dutrow, Lake, Levine et al?

[fkach]

Smalltimer,

Thanks for those  stats. I am not that familiar with Catalano.

If you used Formulator to gather those stats, let me warn you about one thing. If a trainer is suspended and the horse is temporarily listed under the assitant, it counts the return to the primary trainer as a trainer switch. That has a tendency to make the trainer switch stats worse than the claim stats because it really isn\'t a favorable barn switch. It isn\'t a barn switch at all. If you are going to look at that category, you are going to have to look at the details.  

I have found that more often than not move up trainers do better with claims than other trainer switches (large scale barn switches) anyway.  

My theory on that is that when they claim a horse they are making an \"active decision\" to take a horse. So they must often see something in the specific horse that the current barn is not exploiting, a problem that the current barn does not notice or know how to cope with, a problem it knows will be positively impacted by whatever else they are doing (legal and/or illegal) etc.... That makes the probability of a move up greater. When horses are moved into a barn in a more random broader way, they still often move up, but not with the same frequency or to the same degree. Of course there are no hard fast rules, but I think that\'s a reasonable assumption if you don\'t have the data to study.

[sighthound]

Some barns can afford to give Gastroguard, give Lubrisyn, have painful joints injected, float sharp points off teeth, work horses on lasix, and feed enough with good supplements.

Alot of lower level claiming barns can\'t afford the bells and whistles for the horses.  Some horses are not even getting fed enough, nor even getting good quality feed.

No, not trying to \"explain away\" moveups, but realize that they can occur because the horse does move to a better barn, that does see and fix all the little things preventing best performance.

And no, I wouldn\'t expect the above husbandry changes to magically work in three days (exception sore joint injected)

[smalltimer]

In Catalano\'s case, these were primarily horses running at Tampa Bay and owned by Frank Calabrese, they were then moved to Catalano in Chicago.  So, the numbers I use are correct.
This is just an overview.  If I\'m making a play, its based on multi-year research.
Thanks for the input

[miff]

Sight

It\'s definitely happening in NY.Several sharp claiming outfits,with deep pockets, are taking horses and tapping joints et al to get a few good races out of their claims. Many of these horses move up with this type of overhaul and should not be confused with the move ups from \"stuff\" which is being used.The problem is distinguishing who is doing what.


Mike

[covelj70]

Mike,

I most definitely agree with this.  Two of my horses recently switched barns as we were concerned about a lack of attention by the previous trainer.  I am going to leave out the names of both trainers but they are both names that we all know very well.  The new trainer is definitely considered a \"move up\" trainer.

We had been told by the previous trainer that both horses were \"ready to run.\"  The new trainer took 2 days to evaluate both horses and completely shut one down and started all over again with the other.  

The first one went back to jogging for 30 days because of a splint that was flaring up which would have impacted his performance in the next race and/or soundess coming out of the next race.  He won\'t run for another 2 months.

The second horse got a shoe change and several trips to the chiroprator and after a month with the new trainer is moving better than ever and is scheduled for a race in June.  We will see how he runs but it is clear that he is moving better in the mornings than he was before the barn switch.

Long story not so short, I absolutely believe there are legit move-ups.  As you say, it\'s not always so easy to figure out which ones are legit and which ones aren\'t.

[richiebee]

29Pearls Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How would Gary Contessa compares to Dutrow, Lake,
> Levine et al?

29--

They will all have to pay admission to enter the Racing Hall of Fame.

[Lost Cause]

Uncle Buck Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Rosewood. Betting \"AT\" trainers and jockeys is
> ALWAYS a losing proposition. You can not win in
> this game betting with a fistful of resentments.
> Tried it. Doesn\'t work. I used to bet football
> that way too. Never panned out.
>
>In other words when races give you Lemons....Make Lemonade...

[Barry Irwin]

There is, of course, an answer to this entire mess, and I predict that before too long it will come to pass. It is elitest, but so what?

People for whom the sport of horse racing matters the most will form their own private league, with a commissioner and rules. Those invited to join will be selected for their integrity. Those that break the rules will be kicked out. Because it will be a private club, due process will be less of an issue. This is the ONLY way control can be wrested from the crooks.

[sighthound]

People for whom the sport of horse racing matters the most will form their own private league, with a commissioner and rules. Those invited to join will be selected for their integrity. Those that break the rules will be kicked out. Because it will be a private club, due process will be less of an issue.

??  The Jockey Club, etc. have been around for decades.   Horse racing has always been the acme of private club and individual fiefdom.

[cubfan0316]

then why play?

[cubfan0316]

what keeps these guys in? if i cant keep up i quit, simple. lots of other ways to make money.