BC Figures, Euro study

[jmetro]

TGJB Wrote:
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> It was announced after the races had been run that
> the O\'Brien horses (the 4 you mentioned) had in
> fact been treated with lasix. He was fined only
> $2,500, and the purse money was NOT redistributed.

Is anyone REALLY surprised by this?  Seems like S.O.P. to me by the corporate stiffs who manage the game.

[P-Dub]

miff Wrote:
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> \"Style of riding - race tactics changes (\"trainer
> announces Speedy will be ridden more forward, or
> more under cover, if possible this race\")
>
>
> Sight,
>
> Can\'t even get these a--holes to report the
> traditional stuff, can you imagine hearing over
> the Racetracks Public Address System:
>
> \"Number five is a dead send today\"
>
>
>
> Mike


Mike,
That is LOL funny.

I wonder how many of O\'Brien\'s people made fat wagers on these horses running on Lasix?? Racing pubs should be up in arms over this. The fact that this was basically swept under the rug with, lets face it, pretty much no penalty is absurd.

What does the NFL do when coaches don\'t give acuarate injury information?  They penalize them harshly. Its why Shanahan (the coach, not our Shanahan) reports every hangnail to the league. These guys get hit hard. And we all know why....to keep the gamblers informed.

To not have Lasix users reported to the gambling public, and then when failing to do so receive no penalty (2500 bucks isn\'t a penalty), is as ridiculous as an NFL team not gaining even 1 first down in a half of football.  That never happens, right??

[Josephus]

How about this one. Porte Bonheur, a horse I made a nice score on in a stake at Saratoga, runs terrible in the Gallant Bloom, then comes back to win a stake at Woodbine this week.  The trainer says AFTER the win, that she had a legitimate excuse in the Gallant Bloom, as she came out of the race with a bone bruise. Wouldn\'t you have liked to have that information BEFORE the Woodbine race?

[richiebee]

...not to mention accurate lifetime stats for grooms, exercise riders and maybe
even hotwalkers...

Very big in California and some of the other venues where there are mechanical
hot walkers would be the always dangerous switch from mechanical to human
hotwalker...

I\'ve been advocating as long as I have been posting here that all equipment
changes-- bit/bridle/tongue tie/blinker cup changes/ bandages/patches be
reported. Ever seen a harness program? Why not the same level of detail for the
throughbred game?

Sight says \"American horseplayers should DEMAND....!!\"

Can victims and hostages make DEMANDS??

All the Horseplayers Association seems to have accomplished is creating a logo
which looks an awful lot like the Montreal Canadiens \"Les Habitants\" logo. At
least the \"Horseplayer is the Hero\" notion is no longer being tossed about.

Want to get racing\'s attention? If you are a New York area racing fan send a
letter to Charles Hayward-- \"Dear Chuck: Racing in New York under
the \"Camporegime\" (a little organized crime play on words) is pretty much
unplayable. I will be taking a walk with my wife this Saturday instead of
playing the races. When Fair Grounds opens, I will no longer play NYRA racing
unless your organization begins to restore the quality of New York racing which
as recently as 15 years ago was the best in the US.\"

Any truth to the rumor that due to the excessive amount of serious knee and
ankle injuries in the NFL this year that the next 2 Super Bowls will be played
on Miami Beach? (Not in Miami Beach, ON Miami Beach). Not the regular season
games, just the biggest game.

Racing\'s broke and broken. Hopefully later in the day we will see how ready
America is to embrace diversity, and we can call Sheik-a-Mo in to fix Racing.
He can start with NYRA.

[imallin]

SC Man,

Just another slap in the face to the American horseplayer.

[MO]

They swept the Gary Steven\'s buzzer incident in the 1995 Derby under the rug too. What makes you think an industry that has been treating its employees like slaves since 1875 will change now?

[fasteddie]

Jerry:

I don\'t think you can quantify this, but isn\'t much of what we are seeing have to do with the fact that (in general) the artificial tracks playing like turf, AND America\'s #1 export (horses)?? So many are bought up and exported....STILL kicking myself over throwing out Raven by convincing myself he couldn\'t get the distance, and Henry for looking so washed out....Argh!!!

[TGJB]

The second part of that will be reflected in the figures they run in Europe.

[covelj70]

speaking of washed out horses....

I have a question for the board about horses that are \"washed out\" in the paddock and the post parade.

I used to automatically throw these horses out but several instances lately have led me to rethink this with the most notable being Da\'Tara in the Belmont.

When is a washed out horse a throw out and when is it ok to leave them in?

One obvious answer is that when a horse always gets washy, that\'s not as big of a deal as a \"first time washy\" but if we haven\'t seen a horse run before, that\'s tough to know.

Thoughts?

[HP]

This is an interesting (?) subject.  I read that book years ago \"The Body Language of Horses.\"  I believe it\'s by Bonnie Ledbetter.  I rode horses every summer in my teenage years, and I also spent a few months taking care of horses once upon a time (my friend\'s dad raised horses in his backyard stable in Florida - one of them finished second in a minor stake at Calder).  

Despite reading the book and my experience around horses, I have never been able to translate it into successful handicapping.  Once in awhile I will see a horse and think \"no way, not today,\" and I\'m right...but for me it\'s a 50/50 proposition.  MANY times I see things I was taught were negative signs and the horse comes romping home.  I would be curious to hear from anyone who really thought their skills were honed in this area.  

In terms of \"washing out,\" in my experience, if it\'s hot out, and they look washed out, that might not be the end of the world.  Now if it\'s not that hot out and they look washed out, that\'s another story.  As far as BC day goes, it was hot, and it must\'ve been even hotter on the track, so I\'m not sure how much \"washing out\" would tell you...  They only have to run for about a minute and a half.  I don\'t know how much you can peg to sweating or not sweating under those circumstances.  

Tough game!  

HP

[Ohlo]

Larry Colmus and Trevor Denman announced several times that the O\'Brien horses would have Lasix, including in the first announcement of changes at about 8:30 or 9 Pacific time. The big question would be why that information wasn\'t relayed in the simulcast feed.

[P-Dub]

Ohlo Wrote:
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> Larry Colmus and Trevor Denman announced several
> times that the O\'Brien horses would have Lasix,
> including in the first announcement of changes at
> about 8:30 or 9 Pacific time. The big question
> would be why that information wasn\'t relayed in
> the simulcast feed.


I was at the track.  They may have said it, but its not easy to hear anything over a PA at the track. Do you know if that information was running on the screens?

Aside from that, I don\'t think he woke up that morning and thought..\"hey, I think I\'ll try Lasix today\".

However you look at it, there\'s no excuse.

[miff]

Washing out with that nervous hyper demeanor is disastrous,imo. Cov said what several horsemen have told me about body language/sweating, i.e if thats the way he always looks pre-race, no big deal.I have been told that a horse that does not have a little glistening sweat on a hot day is a bad sign.

Personally,I like them looking alert, on their toes a bit, not comatose with their heads down and their tails between their legs.Several guys in NY use body language as the main factor in gambling.

Sight,
Can you shed any light in a general sense of good/bad signs re body language?


Mike

[Ohlo]

I believe he called the stewards on Friday, said he forgot to declare it at entry. For what that\'s worth

[HP]

Miff,

What you cite is the conventional wisdom.  \"Body Language\" details it.  It\'s a good book.  I can\'t tell you how many times I\'ve seen the horse look great, bang-up on figures, and not lift a hoof.  In my limited experience riding, it\'s not that hard to get them to into that \"I just don\'t care\" walk.  You can cool them out.  I would imagine real jockeys can do it too.  It\'s really tricky...