The definition of stupidity

[covelj70]

is doing the same thing and expecting a different result.

That\'s what I keep doing by playing against Zenaytta everytime she runs.

Maybe she\'s so big that the weight doesn\'t impact her as much as it was other horses?

What a filly.

[Boscar Obarra]

I don\'t think there\'s any maybe about it.  She towers over the others and must weigh 150-200 lbs more.  Anybody know ?

 Looks like a Clydesdale running against on of Cordero\'s miniatures.

[smalltimer]

She weighs 1,300#\'s, and yes, she is a 17+ hands tall Amazon.  
I\'m a big fan of hers.  I like Rachel, too.  Looks like about 18 straight wins between them.  Too bad Rachel has proven everything and Zenyatta has proven nothing.

[smalltimer]

As a side-note, there IS a very good chance that Zenyatta will face Rachel sometime this year.  As of this morning, Jerry Moss the owner of Zenyatta said as much. I\'d love to see this matchup occur, the difference is unlike the horses that have been chasing Rachel are done at the head of the stretch, Zenyatta will be rolling.  On paper, Rachel has a huge early/tactical speed advantage, but the big mare from California will be running at the end.
I hope this matchup is announced, it would be great for racing, would give everyone a chance to support their choice.
This is good news for racing if it happens.

[Frank]

\'Too bad Rachel has proven everything and Zenyatta has proven nothing.\'

Seems a little harsh. Somewhere in those 11 straight Z must have proven something even to those who have yet to seen the light regarding synthetics.

[Silver Charm]

Frank what she has proven in those 11 wins is she is the Best West Coast Synthetic racing Filly and Mare ever.

But that\'s it!!

The dirt win in the Apple Blossom counts for something and so does a BC win. Even though again it was on plastic.

I just reviewed the PP\'s of Flawlessly in the \"must own\" book Champions. She won 16 of 28 career starts with four losses coming late in her 5YO  career and as she turned 6.

Another 5 losses came at 2 and early at three (Jan) where she raced exclusively on dirt and believe it or not twice on the AQE Inner Dirt under the care of Richard Dutrow Sr.

So there were a helluva lot of wins strung together in between, mostly out west, but there were two trips to the Bev D and one against Males (Lure) in the BC Mile.

Zenyatta has been well spotted but needs to do more in her career to be labeled great.I would seriously have to consider a Mare like Flawlessly a better Champion in spite of the perfect recod put together by Zenyatta.

[P-Dub]

Frank Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> \'Too bad Rachel has proven everything and Zenyatta
> has proven nothing.\'
>
> Seems a little harsh. Somewhere in those 11
> straight Z must have proven something even to
> those who have yet to seen the light regarding
> synthetics.

I think Smalltimer was being sarcastic.

And these constant posts about plastic are getting tired too.

Anybody who doesn\'t think Zenyatta is a special horse is a poster child for the name of this thread.

[Frank]

P-Dub,
Apologies for my stupidity in thinking that Smalltimer was being serious.

SC,
Flawlessly was indeed a magnificent race horse. But your thinking that Zenyatta needs to do more to be labeled great because she\'s been running on synthetic is absurd. Racing on synthetic is no less relevant than any other racing. It\'s just a different surface. Using a football analogy, are Barry Sanders accomplishments any less relevant than Jim Brown\'s because Sanders ran on artificial turf. Not in my mind.

Frank

[MonmouthGuy]

I don\'t think that is the best analogy.

If your assumption that he was a better player on turf than grass was true, the Lions owners couldn\'t choose to play all of their games at home against the teams he excelled against over and over again to maximize his abilities.  \"Let\'s keep him at home and play the Vikings for the 4th time this season instead of heading to Lambeau Field next week because the Super Bowl is at the Silverdome for the second straight year.\"

However, your assumption isn\'t even true, as he had virtually the same numbers on both surfaces.


http://www.lionsfans.com/barry/ProGrass.htm

http://www.lionsfans.com/barry/ProTurf.htm

Let\'s hope for the sake of the sport, that Z comes east and they meet in the Personal Ensign after RA toys with the boys again at the Haskell. 10F would be a challenge for both and make it a great betting race.  I think if Moss and Sheriffs announce they are sending Z east, Jackson is enough of a sportsman to send Rachel to whatever race they choose. In that regard, Z\'s connections should be in the catbird seat in choosing the race they want.

[Silver Charm]

Frank if all Dirt horses handled Synthetic with aplomb then fine. But they don\'t. It seems as though the turf horses handle it much better. So the surface itself skews the amount of potential competition. A great horse like Curlin got downgraded on Synthetic.

Zenyatta is good and may be really really great. Lets see more.

[BB]

Silver, I get your point about leaving your comfort zone, etc, and don\'t disagree, but ... if a horse was 12 for 12, with most of those being graded and a whole bunch of them being G1, if all 12 were on turf, would you say that horse was \"good\" or \"great\"?

By your measure, why is Curlin \"great\", since he couldn\'t \"handle\" (relative to his dirt form anyway) the synthetics, or, for that matter, turf?

And if your answer is that Zenyatta is merely a great \"synthetic\" horse, then fairness would seem to require Curlin to be qualified as merely a great \"dirt\" horse, and - by extension - Zarkava merely a great \"turf\" horse.

These are three great horses, period. They just ran to greatness on different surfaces.

[jimbo66]

P-Dub,

She is a special horse.  But one that Shirreffs is doing a lousy PR job with, by managing her \"not to lose\".  Even the owner is starting to get anxious about the lousy schedule that Shirreffs is putting together.  He was quoted as saying \"we can\'t do the same schedule as last year\".  That is exactly what Shirreffs would like to do, for whatever reason.  He wants to beat up the Washington Generals.  AGain and again.  Now he is \"excited\" about the prospect of running in the Clement Hirsch because she won\'t have to spot weight.  Geez, great news.  At least there was a little intrigue this past weekend to see how she would handle the weight.  She was spotting 15 pounds to the field, albeit a mediocre field.  Now, she will run at equal weights, against the same group.  Awful.  While \"Nero/Shirreffs\" fiddles, Jess Jackson decides between the Haskell, Travers and Whitney for the dynamic racing star Rachel Alexander.

Is it possible to that Zenyatta is better than Rachel?  Sure.  We\'ll likely never know because of Shirreffs.  But there is no doubt who the better sportsman is, that is Jess Jackson.  As all the doom and gloomers talked about her breaking down in the Preakness, he took the path of most resistance and put her in the race and she won.  She got her \"tune up\" this weekend, in the Acorn, now he will go for \"big game\" again, while Shirreffs looks for 4 mules he can beat at equal weights in the Clement Hirsch....

The sad thing is that Zenyatta dusted Ginger PUnch in the ONE dirt race she had, in the ONE time Shirreffs was willing to ship her.  She could be a great horse, but the court of public opinion decides greatness and other than a few left coast apologists, nobody is getting excited about her campaign.  I am not talking about this board, but read all the articles out there.  Rachel this, Rachel that.  Nothing about Zenyatta and her big win over the Washington Generals this weekend.

Hopefully public pressure mounts on the owner and he over-rules Shirreffs and his ridiculous campaign plans.  We can only hope.

[TGJB]

One other point that neds to be made:

It\'s really unfortunate that California does not have at least one dirt track, since it has the cleanest racing in the country, in terms of drugs. If Zenyatta leaves there to race on dirt the whole game changes, and I\'m not talking about either the surface or RA. There will be other fillies in the race and some of them may be getting more than weight.

[jimbo66]

BB,

If synthetic racing stays around for the next 20 years and becomes a staple, you are certainly right.

But for now, we don\'t have a \"synthetic\" classification in any awards within the game.

Horses in this country have run on dirt and turf forever and they are established racing categories.  Dirt racing has earned the right to NOT need a qualifier in front of any horse\'s name that has run well on it.  Curlin was great.  The same for turf racing.

However, synthetics are not in that category.  For now, they are a necessary evil in the game, with many many people questioning whether their entire reason for existing (safety) is even justified by the facts.  California has mandated their use. And they stand by their poor decision.  But until synthetic racing catches on, many of us will believe that there needs to be a qualifier by any horse that runs well ONLY on synthetics.  Zenyatta is a great California synthetics horse.  Maybe she can prove to be more than that, but probably not, as the trainer won\'t attempt it.  One race outside the state, one race on dirt, does not make a horse great.  

If Rachel never races again, and Zenyatta wins the Clement Hirsch and the Breeders Cup Distaff, many people will still consider RAchel the better horse.

[TGJB]

I wonder if playing on synthetic would help my golf game...