R. Dutrow suspended in KY.

[imallin]

The press has demanded that athletes come forward. Torre had a presser about Manny and i believe A Rod had his own presser to talk about things. The reason they don\'t ask Girardi and Torre about A Rod and Manny is because that stuff has been addressed already.

Instead of having TVG hosts ask direct questions, they need the guilty party to hold a press conference to talk about it.

Also, TVG can tell the guilty parties that if they don\'t hold a press conference and talk about why they cheated, that TVG will continue to discuss this stuff in their everyday analysis.

For example, they can keep reminding the audience that the trainer of the 1 horse in the first race at Belmont just got suspended/fined for X.

But, if you\'ll notice, they never really talk about stuff like this. They won\'t get into any indepth discussions about cheating. How about shows like Lady Luck, have they ever addressed trainers who have broken the rules? Have they ever had on a \'guest\' that wanted to sit down and \'clear the air\'?

I think the media coming down very hard on cheaters is one detriment. These guys have the ability to cash nice bets on drugged horses, pay a small fine and everything gets swept away like it never happened. Racing media has a responsibility to come down on these guys and question them as to why they are ruining the sport and giving it a black eye. If cheaters knew the media would not let this go and force them to address allegations in front of the public, they might not be so quick to stick an illegal needle into a horse.

[sighthound]

Nothing is wrong with that.  You know what I think about drugs?  Pretty much as you do.   Here are the overages, here are the penalties.  I agree with RMTC that the various categories drugs should be divided up - clenbuterol is not the same as bute is not the same as cobra venom.

Where racing fails (beyond obviously) is the consistency.  They have an excuse for not giving the penalty nearly every time.  Why is Biancone still training horses in the US?   Stop it.  Overage = X   No if\'s, and\'s or butts.  It has to become nationally consistent.

Here\'s where I differ from you, I think:   I recognize a micro-overage of clenbuterol, or mepivicaine, or clenbuterol, didn\'t do anything during the race.  The outcome was not affected.  Physiologically impossible.  We know what doses (what blood levels) are needed to prescribe the drug - and we can find trace levels that show the drug was given, and obviously that trace level isn\'t clinically relevant.

But I do agree that if it\'s an overage, be it alot of clenbuterol or a little, you\'re penalized. Period.  Stop decreasing the penalties for vague reasons untold by the stewards.  I don\'t care if you are the drug-free pristine poster child of racing - you get the overage, you get the penalty.

However, where I probably differ from most is that I refuse to call people with rare micro-overages, trace amounts, of allowed therapeutic medications, levels at which we know the drugs were given out away from race day,  \"cheaters\" and put them in the same category as an Assmussen or a Dutrow, or a Biancone.

No, I don\'t think the average fan can be like a vet, obviously, but the hysteria about \"steroids!\" was way out of line with the reality.  Again - an education thing.  The industry is remarkably not knowledgable about itself in many ways.  Probably because those that sit on the advisory Boards of this and that are not necessarily horsemen, but businessmen.

Again, there is no damn national organization.  Someone - a\'la Gaines and the Breeders Cup - should just grab a bunch of folks and step up and START ONE.  The worse that can happen is that it would fail.  Screw TJC, TOBA, etc.

[richiebee]

Analize--

This idea has been discussed frequently, but will likely not be implemented
when tracks are struggling to fill races as it is.

A Phipps positive? Bite your tongue...about as unlikely as a Phipps runner
getting DQ\'d at a NYRA track.

[rosewood]

Sight,

Excellent post

[rosewood]

Sight,
Re: your post

As usual for me, I responded before thinking the thing through.

Your points were excellent; however, you forgot to mention any ramifications for the vets. No the average fan is not a vet but you will have to admit that a hell of a lot of backside vets have milked the system for a long time. If the vets demand that nobody but a vet can even be allowed to worm a horse or float his teeth, etc,etc then by gawd let them pay the price too..

[sighthound]

Trainers lie to vets all the time about when the horse is going to race.  Trainers know withdrawal times (or should).  Vets repeat them when medications are administered.  Vets keep records.

Certainly there should be penalties for having, say, cobra venom on your person.  And lying about when a medication was given.  

But when a trainer gets a clenbuterol positive?  When the drug is given within an appropriate time frame?  I see your point - why the trainer, not the vet.  But the vet isn\'t responsible for when the horse races, after the meds are given.  

How can you punish someone who has no control at all about the horse being put into a situation that would fine or punish the vet?  That\'s why, not the vet (unless he overtly is found cheating, has illegal meds on their person, etc)

There are rules governing pharmaceuticals and veterinarians outside of the race track, and yes, vets give prescription drugs, and lay people do not, amd vets do medical procedures, and lay people do not, and it has nothing to do with \"vets demanding they are the only ones that give ... \"

No, I do not think alot of vets - or alot of trainers - have milked the system.  I think that racing is the cleanest it\'s ever been, right now.

Yes, there\'s room for improvement.  But I think the perception of cheating is far, far, FAR greater than the actuality.

[Boscar Obarra]

So you think all the giant move ups have a perfectly reasonable and legal explanation?


sighthound Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>  ...............
> No, I do not think alot of vets - or alot of
> trainers - have milked the system.  I think that
> racing is the cleanest it\'s ever been, right now.
>
> Yes, there\'s room for improvement.  But I think
> the perception of cheating is far, far, FAR
> greater than the actuality.

[BB]

I don\'t think what Sight said precluded the continued existence of shady move-up trainers, Boscar. After all, \"racing is the cleanest it\'s ever been, right now\", is a relative term.

[Kasept]

richiebee Wrote:
--------------------------------------------------
> Will be interesting to see what IEAH does from here.



richie,

Well, you got your answer... One of their first moves was taking Court Vision from Mott this week and delivering him to Dutrow.

SB

[richiebee]

Steve:

Funny you mention that. Entered as a main track only in Saturday\'s finale at
Belmont is Sir Mott, owned by Zayat.

Sir Mott broke his maiden at the Fair Grounds last November, trained by William
Ichabod Mott. Was next seen at Gulfstream in January running for Team Tricky.

Teflon Tricky. Over 70 violations, the owners keep giving him horseflesh, the
racing secretaries keep giving him stalls, he keeps getting slapped on the
wrist.

Not exactly a blueprint for change.

[marcus]

imo - it\'s a nice piece of public relations for racing - hopefully it will give folks incentive to figure out this medication business once and for all and get it right . I\'d personally rather not give the benefit of the doubt with regard to use of medications and view the glass half empty when  a medications exact value or purpose is relatively unclear or uncertain .

[sighthound]

>>So you think all the giant move ups have a perfectly reasonable and legal explanation?

??  Of course not!

Speaking of percentage of horses running on drugs:

From ESPN 7-7-09  http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/horse/news/story?id=4311703

The Dutrow suspension was handed down at the same meeting where the University of Florida lab that conducts Kentucky\'s drug testing presented a glowing report about Kentucky\'s adherence to new drug rules.


From March through May, there wasn\'t a single anabolic steroid violation detected in any Kentucky racehorse, said Rick Sams, director of the Florida racing lab.

Out of the nearly 1,500 thoroughbred blood and urine samples sent to the lab in that period, 119 were subjected to further scrutiny, and 23 generated violations. Almost all the drugs that broke rules were being used for therapeutic reasons but at doses that were too high.

John Ward, a trainer and racing commission member, said the report was encouraging because it showed almost all trainers in Kentucky were abiding by the rules.

[sighthound]

Today in the first hour of \"At The Races\" they discussed clenbuterol, lidocaine metabolites, acepromazine, and naproxine - what they are, what they are used for, and what an \"overage\" could mean.

http://www.thoroughbredracingradionetwork.com/