Great

[TGJB]

Turns out that contrary to what Equibase sent us and what apeared in DRF, Salve G was first Lasix. Don\'t know what was in the program or whether they announced it at the track.

She ran 3 3/4, fourth best figure in the race.

[miff]

Lasix on was announced by Durkin and on NYRA website.

Interesting that the connections came here specifically for firm footing(got a bog instead) and her pre race antics were off the charts.Eligible for Alw 1x here and Europeans classified her as a alw/claiming type. Of course she won with a big late kick,figured.Just more affirmation of how weak US turf horses are overall with just a few exceptions.

Owners left her here with Pletcher.


Mike

[magicnight]

\"Just more affirmation of how weak US turf horses are overall with just a few exceptions.\"

After that race (and the Sword Dancer before that) I was thinking the same thing. Outside of Gio Ponti and Forever Together (and I guess you could throw in Battle of Hastings), who do we have? And what BC race does Gio Ponti go to? 8F may be a little short and 12 may be a little long. Combine that with the synthetics, and the home team might be taking another public beating this year.

[miff]

Kiaran Mc Laughlin has that Justennuf turf horse, who looked slow on TG, but has electric acceleration, ran a new top for sure last out.I\'d watch for this one.

He\'s a head case with big upside if his manners improve.


Mike

[TGJB]

Let\'s see him do it in California.

[miff]

JB,

Only horses racing in Cali are suddenly clean? Don\'t know about that.You are only using man made figs and sometimes they are subject to debate.TG and Beyer are pretty far apart now in Cali. Also noteworthy that with the exception of Mike Mitchell, the same guys are winning for the most part. Last year, didn\'t Dr. Arthur \"call out\" Sadler, what\'s different this year?

Suggest you speak to Dr.George Maylin, Head of New York State Drug testing At Cornell test labs.He is the architect of many rules re medication in NY and participates in developing drug test.He is renowned in this field in the USA.

Some of the things you posted about testing for Clenbuterol in NY,for example, in urine only, was explained quite differently to me by Dr.Maylin.He disputes that anyone in NY is using it outside of the rules as set forth by the NYSRW Board and he\'s the guy responsible for compliance.He flatly states that he can detect threshold overage in urine which leads to a full test of blood, but only if urine is over the allowed amount(something like 25cm?? I think he said)That\'s what he said, don\'t know if that is correct.

In essence, he disputes that NY testing procedures for Clenbuterol is ineffective. He also cited a very recent independent study which cast doubt that Clenb is a performance enhancer in racehorses.

About one year ago, NY purchased the latest technology/equipment for testing and introduced the cobra venom test. CALI did not test for cobra venom and did not have the latest testing equipment then,maybe they do now.

Since you are involved in this drug thing, you really should call Dr.Maylin, a very cordial man who gave me lots of time to ask questions and did not beat around the bush with his answers.


Mike

[TGJB]

Mike-- I\'m going to leave Maylin out of this conversation, and from now on I would like you to. But you need to give me some credit. I haven\'t just been looking at figures, I\'ve been talking to a lot of people, CORRELATING figures to testing procedures. For example, I know the testers in California said exactly the same thing a couple of years ago-- if there is Clenbuterol we will find it in urine. Trainers in California, led by Darrel Vienna, said WE KNOW FOR A FACT it is being done, and you are not finding it. Eventually the powers that be switched to a blood test, and PRESTO! Guys who were moving horses up like crazy (one in particular) immediately became mortal. That\'s not to say they didn\'t win any more races-- but they stopped getting the crazy, unpredictable move-ups.

NOW-- that\'s not to say Clenbuterol is the whole problem, or that California has everything under control. They also took dramatic steps, far more than anyone else, concerning alkalyzing agents (milkshakes), and in general Rick Arthur takes the problem more seriously than anyone else in his position (defined as not just saying I know everything and the problem is under control, but keeping an eye on what actually goes on in races). For quite a while everything looked good-- but recently Sadler has been getting some moveups out there that have me paying attention.

As for NYRA, I\'ve been in contact with people way up (WAY up) in the food chain, and they know they have a problem. And the situation is such that I can\'t discuss some things you have raised publicly.

[miff]

JB,

I\'ll only say those SAME guys up the NYRA food chain have been saying this for at least 5+ years,we\'ve been over that before.

It just so happens that those guys also race horses in NY and despite the intro of detention barns, beefed up security from NYRA and PRIVATE owners, no one has been caught via testing or otherwise.Where the truth lies re NY\'s illegal use of stuff is very murky.Don\'t give a rats a-- what those voices up the food chain say, their overall knowledge of day to day racing is VERY weak, almost comical.

Don\'t take lightly  the humongous ego\'s of the many very wealthy owners who scream to the high heavens about cheating without a scintilla of hard evidence.They only see their slow slugs being outrun day after day by lesser breds.

Linda Rice has move up stuff, turf only? Sheik Mo get a batch of stuff for the Darley Horses suddenly running tops out of their skin? Wolfson drugged Icon Project I guess as did Josie Carroll last week, all huge tops,must be cheating.

There may be a few cheats in NY but to make a statement that you would like to see Kiaran\'s horse \"do it in California\" is way way out there.So now NY racing is a drug cess pool and Kiaran\'s horse can\'t use that \"stuff\" in Cali. Okie Dokie!

Mike

[Deadrockstar]

Forgive me. Jerry and company. I know lawyers, esp. in NYC are expensive and I know you and the TG field don\'t want to create problems, but for those of us who don\'t decipher every day, why can\'t we get a sense of who you believe the \"move-up\" trainers are.

[Boscar Obarra]

Hey Miff, didn\'t Gary Sciacca have (T) Magic some years ago?  I think they changed the breed of grass and it stopped working.

[miff]

Box,

Actually, from memory, you can trace the demise of Sciacca to a positive many years ago, not the more recent one when he was not even in the country. Has not been able to produce the same results since, may be a timing coincidence. He always had some nice grass runners back when and was a threat, unlike now an almost auto-toss.

Very tough to determine what causes the demise of certain guys but racing stock is the number one thing. Number two may be fear of getting caught using illegal stuff.

Mike

[TGJB]

Mike-- you have to stay off this subject. You are making assumptions about both what and WHOM I\'m talking about that are completely incorrect, and I can\'t correct them here. And you are again not giving me enough credit.

You are also making assumptions about some other things. Sometimes things (and those) that appear to be part of the solution are actually part of the problem. Example-- those drug testers in California who insisted they could catch Clenbuterol in urine, and wouldn\'t change what they were doing for years despite being told otherwise.