Turf Course

[Wrongly]

Sounds like the Euros are down right upset with how hard the turf is.  Henry Cecil said, \"They\'ve got to take the jar out of the ground, you can\'t expect million pound horses to run on a road. Unless they take the jar out, which I\'m sure they will, there has to be a possibility that one or two horses won\'t run. There\'s a lovely cover of grass but it is a tight track. They shouldn\'t change the ground, that would be unfair to fast ground horses, but we don\'t want any jar.\"

He\'s not the only one, Bloodhorse is reporting that Workforce might scratch.
Bloodhorse

Finally get away from the plastic and now we get a rock hard turf course?

[David P]

For those who know -- is there any chance that CD officials will aerate, water, or otherwise address the \'concrete\' issue?

[miff]

Apparently,a track official told several trainers who complained about the turf to worry about training the horses and the track management would take care of the course. Typical of the arrogant clueless clowns that run racing.

Track super Butch Lehr however stated that he would have the track, main and turf in top condition. Turf course reportedly torn up at top of the stretch to 1/8 pole from some use by CD during summer festivals.

I think they will have it in top shape and it wont be an issue.

mike

[jimbo66]

So, who moves up on this kind of turf course?

Would this make the CD turf course analagous to the surface Sydney\'s Candy ran on at Delmar?

[trackjohn]

Given the weather forecast

http://www.wunderground.com/US/KY/Louisville.html

(below freezing Friday night) I doubt they will do anything sifnificant.

[miff]

Jim,

There were two maiden races on the grass at CD opening day.In both races, the course played firm,not brick.Raw times were normal. CD rarely \"bricks\" like CALI/MONMOUTH/SPA/BELMONT/GULF.

Both turf races were won by horses that looked good going in and both winners were near the lead. If the track super is to be believed they will water this course over the next few days, if no rain.While is sounds counterintuitive, adding a certain amount of water to this sand based course may make the base firmer and produced faster,not slower raw times.

There are two more turf races both tomorrow and Thursday which may yield some info on how the course will play Fri and Sat. Good Luck!


Mike

[Silver Charm]

With some of the cost cutting measures to meet the bottom line the use of water was probably eliminated.

The Concert was called Hullabalu, cost the track $5M and former president Steve Sexton his job.

It was a redneck country concert in the infield. Typical of what you would expect at Royal Ascot or say River Downs.

Just be what you really are. A great race track. Monster Truck Pulls, Rock Concerts, Car Shows etc never work. In this instance quality global runners may walk away and never come back.

[Leamas57]

I was thinking the same thing. Track record for a mile at CD turf is, I think, 133.56.  SC ran about 133.09 for the mile at DM when he set the track record for 1 1/16.

I think I have this right.

Leamas

[jimbo66]

Mike,

Makes sense.  Don\'t remember seeing CD play like Monmouth or California (brick) over the years, but don\'t play a lot of CD either.  

Turf races the next few days will be good clues.

Thanks,

JIm

[jbelfior]

Mike:

Agree. With nightime temps in the 40\'s, its unlikely the course is rock hard.

Cecil a better complainer than he is a trainer.  I\'m praying Workforce is in the gate. I will bet against him with both fists.


Good Luck,
Joe B.

[jimbo66]

Joe B,

Not saying I love Workforce, but what makes you want to bet so hard against this horse?  The Euros win this race almost every year and Workforce has very competitive figures, albeit he will be a bit underlaid.

[HP]

I\'d be really skeptical of this.  

First off, there\'s a lot of time between the last race Thursday and Friday AM.  Enough time to radically change the surface and how it would play.  

Plus...the Euros have trounced the Americans over the years at many different tracks.  No American turf course is going to play like a European turf course, period.  Unless it rains non-stop for days ahead of time, and even then...it\'s not the same as steady rain over a period of time.  

I don\'t agree with some of the other assessments here either.  The other tracks don\'t get rock hard?  And they don\'t water before BC?  Do you know the song \"It Never Rains in Southern California?\"  They\'ve done well out there.  Florida doesn\'t get baked?  Really?  

Skeptical of all of it.  HP

[jimbo66]

HP,

Do you want to talk about your skepticism or are you going to throw a better postulate out there?  How are you going to play the turf races then?

[jbelfior]

Jim:

I feel strongly that he will significantly  regress off of the Arc. This is an owner\'s decision to run

As for Euro success, I don\'t disagree. Two American wins and 2 seconds at CD however.


Good Luck,
Joe B.

[HP]

Hi Jimbo - I guess I don\'t see this as that much different than any other year/  We are going to have to handicap horses off of their Euro form and the way they will handle the relatively harder surfaces here is a bit of a mystery.  Two year olds are coming over after running on soft turf every start.  And firm turf in Europe is not the same as firm turf in the US.  

I don\'t see anything particulary unique to CD.  If anything I think CD is a bit more neutral for the Euros than Fla. or Southern Cali where they might be facing 80-90 degree weather.  Obviously if they\'ve run in the US you may get a better read, but with plenty of the good ones you\'re weighing in new variables and a few wild card issues.  

From past experience, I think the TG Euro numbers have held up very well.  So I\'m going to look at the TG figs, I\'m going to try to translate the Euro explanations in the racing form into something my American brain can figure out (speed, stalk, close, etc.) and go from there.  And if it\'s a tossup based on past experience I\'m going to give the Euro(s) a little extra credit.  Basically another day at the track.  I can\'t see myself sitting there saying...\"but the turf is going to be rock hard and I\'m throwing out this Euro because of it.\"  They win all the time, at Woodbine, So Cal, Fla, Belmont, wherever they go.  I\'m not buying into the \"Churchill difference\" now.  

It sounds like a good idea to watch the races Weds/Thurs to get a clue but ask yourself how much water you could put down overnight.  Answer is...who knows?  I don\'t see the percentage in agonizing over something where I will not be able to determine the answer.  If you find out please tell me!  Otherwise we can watch the first few turf races Friday and that will be the best real guage of what is going on.  

HP