Ahem.

[TGJB]

Everything else aside, there were a bunch of situations today where California horses ran elsewhere and horses that had run elsewhere ran in California. My  boy Jimbo (and anyone else) is free to examine that question in detail.

[miff]

JB,

Not surprised you have selective memory.So, the many slow TG fig shippers that whistled(over many years) when shipped don\'t count.TG Cali figs are solid, everyone else is getting them wrong(too fast vs TG)

Incidentally, what are you suggesting about today,Baffy Cali shippers to the toughest ship in track in the world, Calder??

TC gets like a tie for the best fig, while hanging like a chandelier the last 1/16th(distance challenged past 9F) what ahem??


Mike

[TGJB]

Mike-- wait a minute, TC was spotting weight? Why didn\'t someone tell me?

I raised this exact issue about the California figures a couple of weeks back, inviting Jimbo to bring it up again after the many horses had run that weekend. There\'s nothing selective about it, and it has NOTHING to do with whether they win or not. It has to do with what FIGURES they run. Yes, SOME horses shipping out of California go forward, especially the first time. But if it was about the figures, not the horse, you would have to move ALL of the California figures, and then the OTHERS wouldn\'t work. Don\'t worry if you don\'t get it, you didn\'t get it when the same issue came up with Euro figures and you-know-who (who keeps winning the BC Mile).

[jimbo66]

TGJB,

I hate to do anything to ruin P-Dub\'s image of me, but.....

Picking California synthetic shippers trying wet dirt on Calder\'s EXTREMELY QUIRKY surface, would not be where I \"made my stand\" on any figure related point.  Reviewing the Calder results, the horses that trained and prepped there ran well.  Baffert ran 3 horses, all short prices, and the two that stunk it up, were not a surprise to me, or the 3 other TG users I know whom I talked about the race with.  

If you are referring to a different track than Calder, than I missed it, as I only played Summit of Speed today.

[TGJB]

The California horses at CRC ran to their figures, the one that figured to bounce at a short price did. There were a few that had been running all over the place that ran in the Gold Cup. As I said a few weeks ago, make a list. It\'s not about winning.

It doesn\'t seem to occur to you guys that I\'m looking at tons of these, all the time.

[miff]

\"It doesn\'t seem to occur to you guys that I\'m looking at tons of these, all the time\"


...so are we,thats why we question a few from time to time.Incidentally,ironic that BC miler finally ran fast on your stuff after 26 races and at a somewhat advanced age.


Mike

[jimbo66]

TGJB,

Yes, you are looking at the entire database, which is certainly an advantage and gives you the most perspective.  But a few of us that share this opinion are not exactly \"johnny come lately\'s\" to figures and are looking at and betting a ton of races each week, so it isn\'t like we don\'t have our own personal experiences using the California figs.  You have heard it the most from Miff, Mjelllish and me.  I am pretty sure none of us has any ulterior motive.  Just gamblers trying to get the right angles on races.  

Anyway, this is a fruitless discussion, which is why I didn\'t respond the last time you put it up on the board.  I have been stung too many times with \"slow California horses\" winning when they come to Belmont, Saratoga and Churchill, such that I can\'t change my mind.  And my guess is that Chuckles gets reinstated on the board before you next admit a figure might not be right.....

Regards,

Your boy

[jimbo66]

BTW, mentioning Goldikova as part of your argument is rubbing salt in the wounds.  Goldikova has been a huge underlay on TG figs for 3 years running.  Some of us have gone broke betting against her.  (after a few years of betting against \"underlay\" Ouija Board.....

[P-Dub]

jimbo66 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> TGJB,
>
> I hate to do anything to ruin P-Dub\'s image of me,
> but.....
>
> Picking California synthetic shippers trying wet
> dirt on Calder\'s EXTREMELY QUIRKY surface, would
> not be where I \"made my stand\" on any figure
> related point.  Reviewing the Calder results, the
> horses that trained and prepped there ran well.
> Baffert ran 3 horses, all short prices, and the
> two that stunk it up, were not a surprise to me,
> or the 3 other TG users I know whom I talked about
> the race with.  
>
> If you are referring to a different track than
> Calder, than I missed it, as I only played Summit
> of Speed today.


Jimbo,

I don\'t dislike you.  Actually I would like to thank you and JB for giving me a good chuckle.  I\'m in Vegas, its too friggin hot, and its been a long day.  Got to the race book at 3:30pm, hit the P3 ending with the Gold Cup, and hit the exacta enough times to pay for a nice dinner.....after giving some back. Another excellent ROTW.

Thought Chantal rode a great race.

[TGJB]

Miff-- nothing could have proved my point more than that last sentence, which is why I brought it up as an example. A whole bunch of the Euros in the BC (as well as before and after) ran to their figures. So I can either do it the way I do and have Goldikova run a new top, or I can have her not run a new top, and have all the others magically run worse when they come here. What a coincidence that would be.

[TGJB]

Jimbo-- first of all, we correct figures often. There was one such example today on this board. But what you are talking about is systemic error, and aside from running track-to-track programs to check scale, when you\'re talking about stake horses, running on a major circuit, and it\'s been a subject of conversation over the years, you should know I\'ve spent a tremendous amount of time looking at it. And contrary to what Miff said, handicapping one or two circuits a day only shows you a small percentage of the examples, AND unless you check when they come back you don\'t know what they ran. I know as soon as I do the day.

This kind of thing has come up before, We had a hell of a time getting FL right, and I still think it might be slightly fast, And there are other satellite circuits I\'m keeping my eye on right now, ones where I don\'t do the figures myself. California? NO shot.

For the third time, make a list. The ones that ship east or west. Bourbon Bay last week, the ones today at CRC and AP, everything. And keep in mind that horses are bred to run on dirt, and as we have discussed ad nauseum, there\'s a synth/dirt element to this.