"Silence Is Deafening" guy...

[TGJB]

...on the Rag board-- first of all, I just got back in the office an hour ago. But nobody has to guess what our data looks like or pay for the seminar after the fact to find out what I said. We let everyone look at ALL our data (and Analyses) the day after the races free, every day, in the Red Board Room. Also, after the biggest racedays, we post full sheets for all the horses, including the number they just ran, and let people see the data for the Race Of The week. Ask yourself why your daddy doesn\'t do any of that at your house-- they have shown they have the technical ability to do it, since on those occasions their product comes out looking good they post individual races. (Hint-- Royal Delta\'s sheet).

[TGJB]

Speaking of deafening silence...

[miff]

From a Rag friend, Amazombie, St Nicholas Abby and to a lesser extent, Wrote were winners he came with off his read of the Rags. Many other friends,some Rag users,did not do well.Do not know the Rags seminar picks and and not a member there.

Personally being \"ragged on\" for suggesting that HDG\'s last RAG fig was not even close. Because of HDG\'s poor showing, my rag pal suggest the last Rag fig was in fact correct, was over the top and a total toss.

I\'ll stand by my not even close for HDG\'s last Rag fig, which by the way, was in negative territory on all other credible data.


Mike

[TGJB]

I was kinda waiting for someone on the othe board to walk into this one, but this will do. There are some situations where the number power is similar but the reads are different-- and then there are some where it\'s a whole different level of different. Where it\'s clearly a question of right or wrong.

Royal Delta ran second in that HDG race. Everyone here has seen our sheet and my analysis of her-- 2\'s in her last two starts, a contender, but not a use (to me, definitely a use to some others here) at a short price. You know what she looked like on Ragozin? She was a legit 20-1 shot, maybe higher.

Plum Pretty on Ragozin-- top of zero in her last, previous top 5.

It\'s Tricky-- top of 2 in her last, getting back to a number she ran earlier.

Ultra Blend-- last three 6,5,4, reading back.

Pachattack-- 4 in her last, a return to her top.

Royal Delta-- top of 7, with an ugly bounce to an 11 last out (behind HDG in the race in question). Seriously.

SO-- if you believe Ragozin, Royal Delta\'s last was about 20 lengths slower than PP\'s last, about 16 lengths worse than IT\'s last. Guys on the Rag board-- forget the figures for a minute, just use your own head. Do you think that\'s even remotely possible?

[touchgold]

ok, let me tackle this one.....I will say first, I have done well with both products....used jerrys analysis in combination with the sheets for the breeders cup...my take on this race was...Plum Pretty as agreed by both was going to bounce. Her 5 was a while back, and her recent numbers other than the big jump was in line with others....ITs tricky was fast but off an effort..seemed to have room to go back and win, and being TGJB liked her too, was my key...and really needed her to win as had her live to perfect shirl in the dbl..(I did cash PS)....Royal Delta while not that fast, did make a 1/2 point forward move in race prior to the 11, had me figure her for a 6 possibly, and seemed likely to run well....pachattack was off an effort on poly and ultra blend seemed faster sprinting, and seemed just ok....to sum up, I wish ROYAL DELTA was as slow as the ppl here are claiming the sheets had her, but the fact is she won....looking at both tgs and the the sheets, im not surprsied she won......I am surprised at the price she went off at...but I have cashed similar lines at much bigger prices....anyway, in the sprint Amazombie looked strong on the sheets, while TGJB didnt really like her....however, force freeze was a tough read on the sheets, but tgjb liked her....in summary, I think money can be made with both products....both tgjb and len do get races wrong...no one is perfect...but lets stop the bashing..pick a product, or use in combo, and lets move on and make some money.

[TGJB]

\"I wish Royal Delta was as slow as the ppl here are claiming the sheets had her...\". Are you saying the figures I quoted are wrong? I can scan in the sheets. Or, you can ask Friedman to post the race on their site, if I\'m wrong and she looked better he would love to.

[touchgold]

no..not saying that at all.....you numbers were right on....what i am saying is that to me, when I handicap, I am trying to guess what ahorse will run today.....whether she was 20 lengths slower than plum prettys top to me is almost irrelevant.....as I said while I liked her line, she wasnt that fast, but to counter that, she seemed likely to me to run a good race. And with others like PP likely to bounce she seemed hardly the 20/1 on the sheets u quoted is all....again that was my interpretaion...I will say I never expected her to be the favorite...maybe I misunderstood what you were saying, but I thought you were saying that they had her super slow. I was only saying, today, meaning last friday, I liked her line, hated her odds.

[TGJB]

As I said earlier, reads are one thing, numbers another. Everyone is free to draw their own conclusions-- as long as they understand the numbers I quoted are accurate.

That aside-- do you believe RD\'s last (where she was second to HDG\'s in a GI for older mares) was 20 lengths slower than PP\'s last, 16 slower than IT\'s? Does that make sense to you? If you do you believe that if PP had run in that race instead of at Pha she would have won by 12 over HDG, or IT would have won by 8. Do you?

[touchgold]

Well, i will preface this with that I am a casual player....I saw PP race at prx, but not the others. I can tell you 10k claimers would have beat a few of the horses I keyed on last weekend ....So, nothing would surprise me.....basically, I take both of your guys numbers at face value when I use them. I will say when a horse freaks, it freaks, like pp....and when they dont run, they dont run.....like pp again...lol..