Today at Big A

[richiebee]

Dutrow, Dutrow, Dutrow, A Dutrow, Rudy Rod, Jason Servis

Just Sayin...

[Rick B.]

richiebee Wrote:
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> Dutrow, Dutrow, Dutrow, A Dutrow, Rudy Rod, Jason
> Servis
>
> Just Sayin...

I\'m confused.

Isn\'t Dutrow under intense scrutiny from NYRA? How the hell is he winning at a 48% clip?

So far at Aqueduct, he has 23 starts, 11 wins, 5 seconds, and 2 thirds. Unbelieveable.

[miff]

Confusing about Tricky. He will admit to being a \"tweener\"( allowing vets to use LEGAL/PERMITTED drugs on horses in between starts to help them recover/sustain)

Would think, since he is facing a possible ban which would effectively end his career, he would be very cautious about the \"in between stuff\" and paying strict attention to allowable time prior to a race for administration of the legal stuff.

Tricky spots them very well as does many of his racing savvy owners.These owners are not intimidated by larger than normal monthly bills, if you get my drift.Tricky big on feet,back end issues and is known to have a keen eye in watching the way his horses move in the am.

Of course if he has the Magic Bullet(VERY doubtful)the rest is all a facade.


Mike

[richiebee]

miff Wrote:
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> Tricky spots them very well as does many of his
> racing savvy owners.These owners are not
> intimidated by larger than normal monthly bills,
> if you get my drift.Tricky big on feet,back end
> issues and is known to have a keen eye in watching
> the way his horses move in the am.

Miff, \"feet, back end\" you forgot equine dentistry.

Rick B. mentioned his win % at the Racino (another win today, NY bred stake,
first off the claim, off 10 months). I cited his last 90 day TG
stat (41% tops from an admittedly small sample).

So, without being facetious,are you saying that he has been paying
MORE attention to feet/hind end issues recently than he has in
the past?
>
> Of course if he has the Magic Bullet(VERY
> doubtful)the rest is all a facade.
>
>
> Mike

[Ntheiroff]

My guess is that he is winning everything that he can, pile up the $$$, in the event that he DOES get ruled off!

[richiebee]

...and the beat goes on...

[miff]

Bee,

No.Only thong different on this run is that he is using Ramon(plus 2 lengths) pretty exclusively.

Tops mean little to me,winning at a very high percentage very tough to sustain in this game.

Mike

[Rick B.]

Ntheiroff Wrote:
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> My guess is that he is winning everything that he
> can, pile up the $$$, in the event that he DOES
> get ruled off!

Well, of course. But how? Is NYRA just looking the other way? Are the other trainers not trying to win so that Dutrow can just load up? (Pun unintended.)

Or is it possible that, given all of the eyes on him at the moment, the guy can just flat out train horses...and those that think he can only \"train from the bottle\" don\'t know what the hell they are talking about?

I surely can\'t reconcile what is going on at Aqueduct -- something is rotten in Ozone Park -- and therefore, no betting $$ from me.

(I know...big deal. It\'s mostly symbolic.)

[richiebee]

Rick:

I\'m not complaining. I\'ve seen this before, back in the days when I used to
bet and attend NYRA racing 4-5 days per week, back in the mid to late 80s.

Oscar, Pistol, the Gas Man. The creative blacksmithing, the attention to the
hindquarters, the equine dentistry. Knowing when to run, knowing when to rest.
Feed is important, what to feed and how much. I get it.

Dominguez gives an edge; the Holy Trinity, who mined most of their gold in the
winter months, had lots of success with the bug.

Miff: Beyond the win percentage, beyond the TG numbers, what about the visual?
I am not going to say these runners are \"re-breaking\" in the last 1/8th, but I
wouldn\'t be surprised to learn that most of Dutrow\'s runners are enjoying an
advantage in either pain suppression or lung capacity.

[Ntheiroff]

Rick B. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ntheiroff Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > My guess is that he is winning everything that
> he
> > can, pile up the $$$, in the event that he DOES
> > get ruled off!
>
> Well, of course. But how? Is NYRA just looking the
> other way? Are the other trainers not trying to
> win so that Dutrow can just load up? (Pun
> unintended.)
>
> Or is it possible that, given all of the eyes on
> him at the moment, the guy can just flat out train
> horses...and those that think he can only \"train
> from the bottle\" don\'t know what the hell they are
> talking about?
>
> I surely can\'t reconcile what is going on at
> Aqueduct -- something is rotten in Ozone Park --
> and therefore, no betting $$ from me.
>
> (I know...big deal. It\'s mostly symbolic.)

Rick, I think that you hit it on the head \"The Guy can flat train horses.\" If you shed all the b.s. about him, I think that he is very talented, and perhaps has not always put his talents to the best use. I also think that he was able to pass along some of his talents to Rudy, i.e. foot and rear end problems. I am not saying that they are totally \"clean\" but their abilities perhaps get too co-mingled with the slimy stuff. Just my opinion.

[miff]

I am not going to say these runners are \"re-breaking\" in the last 1/8th, but I
wouldn\'t be surprised to learn that most of Dutrow\'s runners are enjoying an
advantage in either pain suppression or lung capacity.

Bee,

Possible,but testing has not yet confirmed anything much.


Mike

[Boscar Obarra]

cold weather? old theory there.

 too many heat strokes in summer?

[richiebee]

miff Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am not going to say these runners are
> \"re-breaking\" in the last 1/8th, but I
> wouldn\'t be surprised to learn that most of
> Dutrow\'s runners are enjoying an
> advantage in either pain suppression or lung
> capacity.
>
> Bee,
>
> Possible,but testing has not yet confirmed
> anything much.
>
>
> Mike


Miff:

Richard Dutrow,Jr. finished the fall meet with 15 winners from 30 starters. I
loved Boscar Obarra\'s comment that 50% was the new 20%.

Working with my memory of events of the 1980s, \"testing did not confirm\" that much
of an advantage was being taken by Oscar, the Pistol and the Gas Man. I do not
recall any of these men being set down for large chunks of time. I certainly can
not recall any of them facing what amounts to a lifetime expulsion from Racing.

This was a time when I still had connections with folks actively involved in
racing, trainers, exercise riders, grooms, and the perception was that a) it was
almost a given that an advantage was being taken, b) this advantage was beyond any
testing protocol available at the time and (most interestingly to me) c) the 3
members of the unholy Trinity were all using different methods towards attaining
their rather similar results.

BO mentioned the cold weather factor -- that the cold weather somehow made
the \"magic bullet\" more magical -- but I would be more willing to attribute their
winter success to the fact that their stables were suited to the type of racing
(dirt racing/claiming racing) that was conducted in the winter months (it seemed
like of the 3 only Moschera ever really developed any skill with turf runners).

I am not a big NASCAR fan, but have been exposed to it enough to realize that
each of the different tracks have unique surfaces, and that it is important that
cars have the right \"set up\" for a particular track. The \"set up\" consists of
adjusting variables in the suspension, tires, etc.

I have always believed that trainers with success at certain tracks are \"setting
up\" their runners for the particular surfaces over which they train and race.
Rear end work and farrier work (where Dutrow admittedly excels) are a part of the
set up; it would be naive not to assume that medication (that which is detectable
and that which is not) is also part of the \"set up\".

\"There\'s something going on here/but you don\'t know what it is...\"

[TGJB]

Richie-- I thought you were going to say you don\'t need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.

[BB]

\"I loved Boscar Obarra\'s comment that 50% was the new 20%.\"

Boscar\'s bon mots, at the cost of a mere click, are terribly underpriced.

A few year\'s ago about this time, a friend here in holiday-tip-happy Manhattan suggested that \"a fifty was the new twenty\". So, while 50% may be the new 20% for certain horse trainers, I am pretty sure that nowadays the twenty is back to being a twenty again.

And, oh, 11th Street called. They said it\'s \"something is happening\". Like Crash Davis, they hate it when you get the lyrics wrong!