Holy Crap

[magicnight]

Don\'t know. Could be.

[HP]

Tony - yes, you are not getting any of this.  

Did you read the article?  I can\'t imagine you\'d be saying any of this if you did.  

It gives the info on the Aqueduct breakdowns and they are mostly in the bottom level claimers.  100% increase.  In one breath you talk about writing the article earlier to save even one horse and NOW you write we need scientific evidence, which means not acting NOW, right?  Fortunately the people in charge did NOT need this so-called scientific evidence because they can see what\'s going on right in front of them (as highlighted in the article) and they acted on the purse structure.  Not that it\'s going to save every horse but it\'s something.  

You make another point about how it\'s related to NY, when the article goes on and on about Penn National and other lower rung tracks that have inflated purses with the new racinos.  DID YOU READ THE ARTICLE?  Pennsylvania.  COLUMNS of it.  

You keep talking about polytrack.  This has NOTHING to do with polytrack.  It\'s about horses getting hurt because there is incentive to give unsound, cheap horses excessive amounts of painkilling drugs to race now since the purses for these low level races have increased so dramatically.  While this is not BRAND NEW, yes, it has entered a MAJOR MARKET in NYC through Aqueduct.  What part of this is beyond your comprehension and what the hell does it have to do with polytrack?  Wow.  Polytrack is a surface horses race on, and this is all about drugging horses.  Never the twain shall meet.  

Also, in case you haven\'t noticed, this is how newspapers work.  On New Year\'s they write about resolutions.  On Valentine\'s Day, romance.  Oscar Week, movies.  The calendar dictates content.  Derby Week, they write about horses!  How often do you see horse racing stories on the front page of national newspapers?  That would be...NEVER!  Unless it\'s Derby Week.  That\'s how it is.  Should not be a surprise, nor does it invalidate the article.  If this is when they get around to talking about it, better late than never.  

Finally, what the hell does this have to do with PETA or politics?  Really...I\'ve read other posts of yours which made sense...but this is just totally incoherent.  HP

[richiebee]

Sight and NCT:

I will repeat myself: If a journalist takes an extreme stance on one side or
another, and the result is a dialogue which brings about necessary change, I have
no problem with it.

The timing of Drape\'s article will have no effect on the handle on this years
Derby.

Yes Michael Gill is an \"old problem\", but that\'s part of Racing\'s problem -- the
bad guys never seem to be punished. The punishment sometimes needs to be draconian
for the mere purpose of deterring future wrongdoers.

Racing is so ineffective at catching cheaters. When Racing does manage to
catch a cheater, especially a multiple offender, punishment needs to be severe.

[NoCarolinaTony]

HP

I\'ve been sent the article by 3 different people besides reading it hear today. I\'ve read the article.


You proved my point completely when you don\'t know the history behind synthetic tracks and why they are even here.(Same Issue Breakdowns- Surface was to blame for the Breakdowns back then, not Greed)

I get it,  All the Breakdowns that Occured At Aqu this winter are linked to cheap claimers and the increased purse structure. The Racino purse structure is to blame for the abhorent behavior of some unscrupulous trainers and owners doing this, purely out of greed. (See Oscar Barrerra GASPAR MOCHERA Pistol Pete and Tricky Dick Dutrow...meaning its nothing new ETC).

Understanding the reason behind each break downs tells us nothing, knowing the details for oneself versus taking it as fact from a writer who has a \"point\" of wanting to kill the industry as a whole, really does not matter.

Is it only Purse structure that caused this? Greed is incentivising this behaviour in the racing industry and nothing more. How Novel.


The PENN Nat story is 2 years old, nothing was done then. So are all of the

Yeah I do get it, HP, I did say its about business after all...or did you miss reading that?

I Gave UP the PETA  Politics Gig, you guys can beat me down on that one, except that they are going to use this story too to Kill the Industry, kind of the way they did with LUCK (Which stunk anyway, but thats a different issue).

THE POINT IS :

IS THIS REALLY NEW NEWS ?? JUST BEACUASE SOMEONE WROTE IT IN A NON RACING PERIODICAL ITS NOW ANY MORE MEANINGFUL THEN IN THE PAST? BECAUSE IT HAPPENED AT AQU, NOW ITS IMPORTANT? None of this is new News, its sensationlized for Derby week, its been going on for Decades. Maybe this article will shed a few more eyes on this problem, but Im Sceptical. This too shall passor blow over in a few more days after Derby week is gone. TGJB has been pushing the Drugs issue for Years, and still nothing has happened.

Have fun Good Luck betting the Derby!!

NCT

[NoCarolinaTony]

Richie...

I don\'t disagree with you at all!!!

Maybe as I am getting Older I just don\'t see racing doing anything to improve itself or its image. The Greed angle has been around since Racing Started, so have Drugs and ways to cheat.

So if the article creates a Draconian Racing Board and gets rid of the Cheating Hooray!!.

My Main Point here it\'s really nothing new..right?

NCT

[sighthound]

I agree with virtually all you say.   Racing\'s response to this type of thing is simplistic and shallow:  eliminate steroids, and more ridiculously, to think about eliminating lasix?  It\'s beyond absurd, how incompent horse racing is at managing their sport.  But do I want Congress involved?  Never in a million years.

[HP]

When was the last time you saw this on the cover of the New York Times?  That would be NEVER.  Come on.  

The history of polytrack?  You\'re kidding right?  The INTENTION of polytrack was to cut down on breakdowns.  Giving cheap horses painkillers to run in $10,000 claimers for big purses has exactly...what to do with polytrack?  Just totally incoherent.  No connection at all.  I\'ll accept your expertise on polytrack and synthetic surfaces and the history, etc., since it has absolutely nothing to do with this article.  You win.  

Lots of examples of old news and problems finally coming to a head and being dealt with.  I doubt this is one of them, but I thought the article was good and hard to understand people attacking it, and throwing in the kitchen sink like PETA and polytrack to do so.  

We can agree to disagree, and good luck with the big race.  HP

[sighthound]

I think the point is that, when confronted by something \"untoward\" or \"distastful\", the grand old wealthy poobahs of racing tend to clutch their pearls, get hysterical and find someone or something to blame.  Drape enjoys feeding their hysteria.

Rather than doing something of actual substance or meaning.

[TGJB]

No, Tony, you don\'t get it.

The news is the FACT THE ARTICLE EXISTS, itself. You think that the public-- especially the average NY Times reader-- knows the Gill story?

[NoCarolinaTony]

You are right again Jerry.

I cant disagree with your point, No average New York Times Reader would know the Gill Story because the New York Times rarely covers racing in the first place in the New Millennium.

Is it your hope that industry people might pick up on it an care enough to act?

Why is this not covered by industry periodicals such as the Bloodhorse, or DRF, or Thoroughbred Times or other industry periodicals. Why don\'t they include the article in their publications?  You might get interested parties who might feel motivated to do something. The article in the NYT is in the wrong venue and wrong audience. The people who should be writing this article (inside the industry)  don\'t and probably won\'t.

So now the Story Exists, what does it mean? I\'m sure I can dig up story after story after story about Greed and Greed motivated drugging of horses over the entire history of racing, whether it be for Purses which is the basis of this article or the horses value itself (to be claimed or puchased outright)

The same old thing, NOTHING WILL HAPPEN. People have very short term memories,This article is the story of the month, and will be out of our memories when the next expose is written in a few months / years. Its sad, but they keep writing these. I Guess the poly/breakdown analogy is already long forgotten (but was it really the drugs back then too?) We ourselves the bettors are hypocrates. Us Handicappers still go on betting and bitch and complain about this issue, but keep coming back for more.

Maybe the thinking here is, with this article real change will happen.

I know the subject is near and dear to your heart, and I know Drugs in Racing and information sharing of drug usage, milkshaing Co2 levels etc on race day in racing is an important thing to you and to me.

Now if you told me you were so damn disgusted with all of this, and will stop publishing figures for such a corpupt industry, as being portrayed here, due to your strong moral convictions, I would take this much more seriously.  

I do get it Jerry.

Good Luck with your Seminar.

NC Tony

[girly]

http://www.timesunion.com/opinion/article/Editorial-Bad-to-worse-at-NYRA-3526040.php

[TGJB]

Tony-- the Times article was the second, supposedly two more are coming. Incoming...

There was a Congressional hearing the day after the article came out, you can probably find out about it on Bloodhorse. There is tremendous pressure-- this time coming from people INSIDE the industry, including those with names like Strawbridge and Hancock-- to get the Feds to come in and run the show. Which I would not be averse to-- if it was done right. Which with the current atmosphere of hysteria is the opposite of what could happen.

The outfit which has been doing some serious work on this is the Jockey Club. They issued a pretty thoughtful bunch of recommendations a month or two ago, you can probably find those too.

[NoCarolinaTony]

Jerry,

Thanks for sharing this.

I guess what I don\'t want to see happen is another implementation of Synthetics to to solve breakdowns when it was the damn drugs and use of other performence enhancers to horses that should not be on the track. More public information etc.

I didnt realize this is part two of a series, and thought it was completely stand alone.

I am Glad to see real industry people are taking this seriously and getting the Feds or some central governing body involved here. The Jockeys can play a key role here, if they all take action together on certain trainers or tracks.

Anyway I will be following this closely, from here. I am hoping for the best.But still skeptical, with good reason. We\'ve been down this path before.

Its really sad to see the deterioration of a sport that was so grand once, and is not even respected by even a small segment of society and has pretty much lost the youth of this country. I hope it survives beyond the next generation or two. When I am in Kentucky, when playing or talking Horses, no one thinks of you as a degenerate gambler, where pretty much the rest of our society thinks of \"Luck\" and people like that when going to most tracks around the country.

Again Best to you and the Seminar. Cant wait to see it when it comes out.

NC Tony

[TGJB]

Seminar is up now, judging from the 68 people who took it in the first 15 minutes you guys have been shockingly patient.

[NoCarolinaTony]

Now we need the Rangers to win tonight....

Thanks!