Fastest TG Fig ever?

[Rick B.]

Is it still Midnight Lute with a negative 7?

Thanks.

[phil23]

Quality Road ran a -7.50 in the Donn.

[Rick B.]

phil23 Wrote:
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> Quality Road ran a -7.50 in the Donn.

Thanks!

[TGJB]

In an unrelated story, Jerry Bailey said on-air the other day that the \"steroid era\" was over, and said he could see the difference physically (which goes against something Miff has said here a few years ago, that horses were the same physically as always). There\'s still the issue of Clenbuterol (which is a steroid), but I\'m not giving out as many crazy fast numbers.

[miff]

Ahem, not even close.Said that horses are not faster today as wrongly suggested in the horses are getting faster thing. Dr Fager/secretariat and others of old just as big and fast as any modern day horse.Bailey referring to body mass/girth which steroids build.

No one but you thinks horses are 2 seconds faster( app 12 lengths faster) than previous generation.

[phil23]

Don\'t want to get in the middle of a fight here but given that athletes in all other sports are bigger/stronger/faster than their 30 years ago counterparts, would it not make sense that, given modern advancements (medicine/training/nutrition), that horses are as well?

[TGJB]

What you said at the time was that horses of about 5 years ago were no bigger and stronger than horses of earlier generations. What Bailey said is that they were bigger and stronger (and also that was why they are less sound and need more time between races, which you might recall hearing here as well). I don\'t need him to tell me they are faster now, that\'s what I do. But on the physical side, he took the opposite position you did.

[Rick B.]

Was thinking the same thing.

Also, I slum around and play harness races from time to time, and standardbreds are undoubtedly faster these days as well; the advances in equipment (i.e. titanium bikes now vs. old wooden sleds 40 years ago) are well known, but that doesn\'t account for all of the increase in speed.

[TGJB]

The points you guys just made are covered in the original piece (\"Are Racehorses Getting Faster\", in the Archives). Short answers are yes and yes.

[miff]

Phil,

Very logical, which is why I believe the assumption on horses was incorrectly made.Not sure where Bailey was but I stood 5 feet from Dr.Fager, Secretariat and many others from 40+ years ago.The horses of today,generally speaking,are NOT bigger(as in 16+hands) and certainly not 12 lengths faster at the top level.Many modern horses, pre steroid ban were very barrel chested and massive,don\'t see that any longer.Not certain Bailey just not repeating what DR.Arthur said recently.

Check out Andy Beyers figs of the horses of which I speak,they are just as fast as many of the modern day horses.The very large animals of 50 years ago stood 16+ hands,just like today.The greatest diffence between yesterday and today race horses is definitely in the claiming ranks where todays runners are faster.

Humans a way other story,I knew 10 guys that were six feet tall 50 years ago, now I know many.

Example, NFL Hall Of Fame defensive lineman from 40 years ago would not be big enough or fast enough to make an NFL roster today, on the other hand, horses like Dr.Fager/Secretariat and others would be very competitive today.


Mike

Edit for Rick B,

Gravitated over from harness racing long ago.Harness horses 30+ lengths faster from back when but really not much larger in size if at all.

[TGJB]

Mike-- leaving aside the \"evidence\" that a) is anecdotal and b) is based on your oersonal recollections of 40 years ago, find me a single person who makes figures WITHOUT using pars who doesn\'t have horses getting faster. If you use pars they CAN\'T get faster-- which is why once you have a working data base you throw them away.

[sighthound]

Don\'t you think the tracks are much better maintained, better equipment, more detailed maintenance - can be made much faster?  I\'m thinking of old tracks like Saratoga/Belmont/Churchill.

[Rich Curtis]

Miff wrote:


\"I knew 10 guys that were six feet tall 50 years ago\"

 Was that Lilliput-to-NY ship as tough as they say?

[TGJB]

Covered in the piece in the Archives-- much deeper now, different dirt/sand ratio.

[sighthound]

Thanks, will have to re-read that piece.

Speed:  The maximum you have is genetic potential (breeding).  That genetic potential must be maximized via:

training for the job (gate breaking, leads, settling, comfort within race)
conditioning (proper types of base and speed work for job at hand)
nutrition (feeding for proper development and maximum health)
health and injury management (they all get injured or sore somewhere along the way)
equipment (proper bitting, saddle fit, bandages, blinkers, etc)
rider (exercise riders that don\'t hurt the horses mouth and back in am, jockey during race that rides the horse \"soft\" or \"hard\" as horse personality needs)
track (composition of track, maintenance)
psychology (a horse willing to give it\'s all, based upon training and personality)

There\'s a heck of a lot in the above list that can go wrong.  And frankly, many trainers today are no longer horsemen.