Liason

[fjmb]

C\'mon 2 days rest is a joke.  From now on lets run the Derby on Saturday then 2 days later run the Preakness and then 4 days later run the Belmont. We can get the whole triple crown over in a week.  Recap, Dutrow won a state bred stakes race and a Grade 1 race with the same horse in just 2 days.  Sounds and is rediculous.  If drugs isn\'t a part of this equation then I\'ll eat my computer!

[miff]

\"If drugs isn\'t a part of this equation then I\'ll eat my computer\"


FJMB,

You are absolutely correct.Most horses use TONS of drugs, Whats the problem? There\'s a list of dozens permitted in between starts by NYSRWB. If you mean drugs of the Class 1 or Class 2 variety or drugs for which there is no test, Dutrow has no positives.You can bet Willy B gets injected with a few cc\'s of clen b regularly and whatever else is allowed in between,legal now,rule may soon be changed.

Read no less than 20 posts all over cyberland re the outrage but most dont know whats permitted vs what is not.We\'ll just ignore the pathetic performance by that entire field vs their norms.

Cant wait for them to ban all in between drugs,we\'ll be playing poker or something 6 months out of the year in NY, there will not be any racing.

Hope Joe Dope will be on the investigative side of the Willy B\'s drug induced performance yesterday.

Mike

[Rick B.]

miff Wrote:
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> We\'ll just ignore the pathetic performance by that
> entire field vs their norms.
>
> Mike

That IS some powerful stuff Dutrow has: not only is it
undetectable, it makes all the other horses in the race
run like pure sh*t. (We used to call this a \"contact high\"
back in the swingin\' 70\'s.)

Diabolically clever, that Tricky.

[fjmb]

Miff,

There\'s no way that horse was tested twice in 2 days, and if he had tested positive, then Dutrow/Owner would have called foul saying how can he be clean 1 day and not the next.  It\'s bullsh*t running 2 days apart.  How about the welfare of the horse and the sport??  Sometimes I think it is just easier to pull the slot machine or just wait for pocket aces???  Kick Dutrow and his drug using a$$ to the curb!!!  I feel cheated.  Anyone who can say I loved this horse if full of it.

[miff]

FJMB,

Sorry you feel cheated,that\'s bad.

I lost on under performing horses in that race and I feel bad but do not for one second think that I was cheated by Tricky.If you were cheated,very doubtful, it was by John Rodriquez.Tricky hanging down at Aqueduct most of the SPA meet very worried about his future as a trainer.Tricky caught up in a whirlwind by the disingenuous phonies (big owners/breeders/regulators, jockey club, NRA, no nothings, Joe Dope\'s) stumping on the clean up the game bandwagon although many of them were in power/had influence as the game went into demise.

Don\'t know if you know/understand the rules of racing in NY as promulgated by the NYSRWB.They have a website that explains just about everything as it applies to the permitted use of medication.

Again, I would not have played Willy B if he was 20-1, except if they exhumed Oscar and named him Willy B\'s trainer.

Good luck

Mike

[Boscar Obarra]

http://articles.latimes.com/1991-04-11/sports/sp-221_1_oscar-barrera

Shifty, Tricky, it\'s all the same.

[Rick B.]

fjmb Wrote:
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> It\'s bullsh*t running 2 days apart.  How about the
> welfare of the horse and the sport??

Not to start a war here, but...really?

You think you know what\'s best for Dutrow\'s horses...
or any trainer\'s stock, for that matter? I find that
line of thought to be mighty arrogant.

Where on earth do horseplayers get the idea that a
horse can\'t possibly race twice in a few days without
suffering irreparable harm? A properly trained and
healthy racehorse can do far more than current lore
would suggest.
 
If you made the assumption that the horse couldn\'t
win based solely on his quick return, you were NOT
cheated; you simply made a mistake.

[P-Dub]

fjmb Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Miff,
>
> There\'s no way that horse was tested twice in 2
> days, and if he had tested positive, then
> Dutrow/Owner would have called foul saying how can
> he be clean 1 day and not the next.  It\'s bullsh*t
> running 2 days apart.  How about the welfare of
> the horse and the sport??  Sometimes I think it is
> just easier to pull the slot machine or just wait
> for pocket aces???  Kick Dutrow and his drug using
> a$$ to the curb!!!  I feel cheated.  Anyone who
> can say I loved this horse if full of it.

What is Dutrow\'s record wheeling back a horse off of short rest??

If you don\'t know the answer, and refused to consider that stat, who\'s fault is that??

You sound like someone who rigidly thinks that it\'s all about a number on a sheet. Guess what?

The best fig horse and best pattern horse lose. Plenty. It\'s a random game. Not everything can be explained. Stuff happens.

Complaining about Dutrows methods, and whether or not they are legal, have no relevance when placing a wager. It\'s this race, right now, and it\'s up to you to figure it out. If others took into account his short rest stat, and you didn\'t, that\'s your problem.

Lastly, on some data, this horse was playable. TG is a great product, but not the only product useful at the track.

[fjmb]

P Dub ... good stuff.  Maybe I care too much about the racing product.

[P-Dub]

fjmb Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> P Dub ... good stuff.  Maybe I care too much about
> the racing product.


Nothing wrong with that, many do care. You are obviously passionate about this game, which is a good thing.

I just have a different mindset when playing, it\'s all about trying to cash a ticket.

[Lost Cause]

P-Dub Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> fjmb Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> I just have a different mindset when playing, it\'s
> all about trying to cash a ticket.


Amen..My job when i\'m handicapping is not to control drugs it\'s to pick the winner based on numbers AND pace breakdown..Trainers also have to be included in your analysis.  The 2 day layoff didn\'t bug me because he did it before and the race on Thursday was not a gut wrencher at all and Dutrow has done it before...Willy may show effects of it at some point or he might not..every horse is different

I was not trying to redboard or piss anyone off I was just responding to Miff\'s statement that it was a garbage race as if the outcome could not be predicted....This was not Acrcangues in the Breeders cup..  I put my thought process below if anyone\'s interested.  Sheet numbers and Race setup are both equal in my analysis when betting a race.  I don\'t care what kind of number a horse earns.  I\'m not playing that horse if he is a deep closer in a race that the speed is capable and is going to be loose on the lead.  That kind of situation presented itself in the Kings Bishop or so I thought.  Forget drugs or anything , it just seemed based on prior performance that Willy had a chance based on both numbers and pace setup.

The pace of the race showed that Trinni and Doctor Chit would be going out for the lead and kill each other up front.  Currency Swap would be forwardly placed to not get shuffled back and Gun Boat had blinkers on so he was going to go which compromises both of them.  I threw them all off my ticket except Dr.  Chit as a backup who was the outside speed and I was worried he would be allowed to relax outside Trini and someone else who might jump out there hard.  After that you have Fort Loudon, Laurie\'s Rocket, Willy BEamin and Ever So lucky as the next fastest in order.   Lauries Rocket was switched from Dallas Stewart to D Wayne Lukas so he was a toss for me.  Of the rest the only one that seemed to make sense was Unbridled note who was going to be closing and was improving; I just didn\'t see him as being able to close better than Willy and Fort Loudon.

So I used Fort Loudon, Willy Beamin and Ever So lucky.  with Unbridled note and Doctor Chit as my backup.  I focus on p4 and p3 plays so when I saw the tri and Super payouts I wanted to bash my head against the closest post but that\'s how it goes.

[tmon]

Over in the UK Soar View won a 2 mile turf race on the 29th and then won a 2 mile turf race today his trainer Sir Mar Prescott who has done this with sprinters and stayers for years including on all-weather tracks.