Pletcher Comebackers

[fjmb]

Here you go, I know a guy whose business is removing the manure/hay from racetracks.  He then sells it to mushroom farmers. The Mushroom farmers now dont want the manure from racetracks anymore because of \"all the steroids in the manure\". The manure produces deformed and very low quality mushrooms, go figure.

[Fairmount1]

Kekomi,

Thanks for this insight.  I\'m not a chemistry/medical expert so I apologize for this question but does this blood transfusion avoid a testing problem as opposed to the use of EPO for which they can detect levels?  Or do they test red blood cell levels also?  If I understand Miff correctly (and I may not), this blood transfusion process (Stacking?) to increase red blood cell counts is not necessarily illegal?  

And does this increased red blood cell amount account for a horse\'s ability to often continue to be game, continue to fight and \"refuse to be passed\" visual observation horseplayers see from time to time?  I had a low percentage Fairmount trainer about 2 minutes to post tell me one time, \"hey my horse won\'t win, his blood cell count is way down.\"  The horse was 4-5 on the board and ran up the track.  So how often do they run blood tests on these animals if a cheap Fairmount nag\'s trainer knows these levels.  

It seems to me this is the information, red blood cell count, is as meaningful a number as TG fig.  And obviously this is the info trainers/barn people have that gives them an advantage over the public as to how their horse is coming into the race.    

If this \"stacking\" isn\'t illegal, I think many trainers would still never consider allowing this to happen because it is dangerous I presume (Ie, complications).  Very interesting stuff.  Again, thanks.

[miff]

Fair,

Blood doping not stacking,apologies for not explaining. Stacking is the process whereby separate doses of two different legal medications are given to a horses withing the allowed time.Example, two anti inflammatory drugs are administered to a horse instead of one,stacking.

If you had a headache you would take one Tylenol and one Advil, the thought being drugs used in combination are more effective in relieving your headache.Lotta yakking/innuendo on boards about move up guys, blah blah but most do not know the incredible arsenal of legal stuff that is being used in conjunction with super jugs, shock wave theraphy and other legal tools.

Mike

[TGJB]

Eight--

1-- First of all, I\'ve been trying to get these Mother F_____s to sue me for years. Subpoena power is a wonderful thing, I\'m careful not to characterize without having the goods, and Allday admitted what he did in front of half the Fortune 500. They would make great witnesses.

2-- I have gone on the record to some degree here, before and now, and in an Op-Ed that ran in TDN, but there are some issues of being told certain things in confidence. What Allday said to the JC is in a gray area-- the deal was anything said there could not be used against you-- and I feel comfortable going about as far as I have publicly. I have gone on record to a greater degree with anyone I thought could help-- with the JC, with Joe Drape (and no, I was not his source, I talked to him after the drug articles), with Tom Udall\'s people, with Charlie Hayward, Ron Charles, Rick Arthur etc.

3-- Miff, you\'re not going to like this, re NYRA. Recently-- THIS WINTER-- someone found a syringe outside the barn of a prominent NY trainer and turned it in for testing. It was positive for a derivative of the drug which whose use in horses Allday pioneered (ahem) over 20 years ago, and it does raise red blood cell counts, that\'s the point. I was able to find out how they are beating testing-- it involves the timing of injections, and I verified with Rick Arthur that when administered that way you can\'t catch it except with out of competition testing. By the way, the vet that services the guy in question also works for two other trainers having huge winters.

Hey, you know what? At the BC this year they went around confiscating syringes, and I think did some out of competition testing. You know, the BC where certain trainers horses didn\'t run well.

[miff]

JB,

Still 95% smoke, finding a syringe at a racetrack,are you kidding me, how startling.The guy who is no longer licensed in NY will come on this board and enlighten you as to how to win at 25% without using any class 1 or 2 drugs.Incidentally, no less the 3 NY move up guys, according to you, spend substantial money out of their own pocket to ensure no one \"plants\" a syringe.I\'d like to bet that if they find all the purely \"illegal\" trainers, youd be off by a substantial margin.

The percentage of totally illegal stuff being used to cheat pales in comparison to the abusive use of legal stuff,which is now under review at most major jurisdictions.

Mike

[TGJB]

I\'m getting damn close to a line here-- I don\'t have a problem talking about what Allday admitted to, but I\'m trying not to accuse his clients, since they didn\'t walk in there and admit cheating, he did. But what Allday said he did back then has exactly the same relevance that prior bad acts have in court. He worked for Pletcher then, he works for him now, he has admitted to cheating for his clients in the past.

But I feel okay about saying who Allday\'s clients were, and if this game was run properly we would know who the vet was for every horse, as we do its trainer. The ones I know, chronologically:

Alan Paulson (supposedly Allday did not work with Cigar).

Pat Byrne for a brief period (guess which).

Stronach (Orsino, Red Bullet, etc.).

The Dutrows. Who intoduce him to

Frankel in 2001.

Pletcher (starting around the same time).

Re the Kentucky lab-- I have it on ironclad authority that the reason they changed was they loaded some samples to test the lab, and got back no positives. Great game. Does that mean that\'s why Pletcher hasn\'t done as well at CD since they changed? Not neccesarily, but like I said, hell of a coincidence.

[high roller]

My filly was 100% healthy - then on clembuterol for weeks - then elevated liver enzymes that never came down. Manufacturer states clem should not be used long-term. My trainer-vet had no response when I questioned them on it.

[TGJB]

Miff-- you need to read that again. The syringe tested positive for EPO. And it wasn\'t \"planted\"-- if it had been it would have been inside the barn. Where it was nobody could be charged.

[TGJB]

HR-- that\'s one legal drug that for sure is being abused. There are versions out there much stronger than the usual (legal) one, too.

[high roller]

Jerry - One thing you can never explain - the racetrack is one hell-hole of jealously - one disgruntled employee could sink any of these juice trainer\'s. It would have to be a conspiracy where no one ever rat\'s. These day\'s there\'s no shortage of do-gooder\'s and whistle-blower\'s.

Miff is correct - the big stable\'s have the financial muscle to use everything and go to the edge of the cliff. It\'s like Wal-Mart vs. Mom & Pop.

Plus TAP an astute horseman - with the best stock - the best help - the wealthiest owner\'s.

The guy you should be talking about is JAMIE NESS!

[miff]

\"The syringe tested positive for EPO\"


JB,

If Dr. Maylin finds a positive for EPO in a NY runner it will be on page one of every trade paper in the world.New Gaming Commission in NY,old NYSRWB desperate to find a \"big story\" as they seek much more money/power in administering NY racing.They are on a witch hunt and doing things bordering illegal which has some NY trainers/owners seeking legal advice.

Mike

[TGJB]

Miff-- you need to read slowly, a few times, and make sure you understand what I said.

There was no positive for EPO. They are able to beat the test, as I said. The SYRINGE tested positive. It could not legally be attached to any individual or horse. What should they have put on page one?

[bstaubs22]

Anybody have any ideas who this guy is working for now besides TAP? This is pretty unreal that we have to factor in vets into the handicapping process!!

[miff]

1.Assuming what you say is fact, Dr.Maylin is knee deep in the process of testing, notwithstanding no horses was identified.

2.EPO testing is old in NY.As told to me, those test can be ambiguous or overlapping.Since you state you know how \"they\" beat the test, shoot me an email and I\'ll get it to Dr\'s Maylin and Scollay, it may be old news to them.

Lets see what the most knowledgeable have to say about it.

[TGJB]

Read it again.