Sighthound suspension

[alm]

You\'re in the ring at Calder and a shipper from Aqueduct walks in veins bulging with the handler hanging on for dear life.  He was recently claimed from a race in which he was buried up there and gets the shit bet out of him today.  He beats you by four and a couple of weeks later he returns in the same company and runs off the board.  He can barely walk.

That\'s how you tell.  When the same trainer goes something like 7 for 12 with similar NY shippers you get the full picture.

[TGJB]

I don\'t know about the rest of it but there is clear correlation with unusual heavy betting action and horses running well with moveup trainers.

[Themig]

bellsbendboy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Veranzano is pounds the best colt Vito but has a
> trio of negatives, at least for me;
>
> 1) he raced at Tampa
>
> 2) No starts at Two
>
> 3) Was he hazing in the stretch, in the Wood?  If
> not: No chance.  If so long gone, especially with
> the new rules. bbb

Can you explain 1) he raced at Tampa?
Just curious as to why this is a negative and equal to him only having zero starts at 2. Thnx

[JimP]

Since Frank D\'s opinion seems to be shared by the majority here, I have 3 questions for anyone who cares to respond:
1. Given that the game is fixed, why do you continue to play it?
2. Why do you buy expensive past performance data like TG when past performances are so frequently rendered meaningless by the common place use of drugs to alter the performance of the horses?
3. For the subset of you who own horses, why do you continue to invest the large sums of money that is required to acquire horses and keep them in training when the playing field is so unlevel, unless you also intend to cheat like your competitors?

[touchgold]

Has any other suspicious trainer bombed as much as pletcher during the period at churchill were talking about? Maker? etc?

[cubfan0316]

if you really believe its just drugs, pick out a certain jockey and watch him in the stretch, tell me he dont know if hes suppose to win

[sekrah]

Well said Frank D.  I\'ve been wagering for 15+ years.  As the game has steadily devolved from handicapping horses into handicapping trainers, I\'ve steadily reduced my play and picked up other hobbies.  There are reasons that horse racing is dying in this country and cheats are at the top of that list.  Anyone not realizing what is going on and how it affects the future of the sport is naive.  It\'s pretty clear and understable why JB is pissed off.  The cheating has a direct affect on his business as people like me have been steadily buying less and less racing forms over the years.  I\'d be fighting with the same grit and determination as him if I were in his shoes.

[P-Dub]

FrankD. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Drugs have ruined the game; anyone who bets
> serious money on a daily basis would agree. NY is
> a complete joke with the winter inner track meet
> being completely un betable.
>
> I\'m appalled by the blind, deaf and dumb who
> continually say nothing is going on or we are all
> conspiracy theorist. Those of us who pluck serious
> money down on a daily basis or used to know that
> the playing field is not level.

>
> If anyone thinks this game is clean on a daily
> basis they are a complete idiot!!!!
> I\'ve spent lot\'s of time on the backstretch,
> training tracks, with clockers, owners, trainers,
> jockeys, exercises riders, grooms et all !!!
>
> Even in his hey day through the mid 80\'s Oscar
> Barrera was never a 30% trainer in NY. The juice
> trainers de jour at particular meets are winning
> at 30 or 40 % on hay and oats ??  REALLY !
>
> Good luck,  
>
> Frank D.

I don\'t think anyone on this board has claimed that nothing is going on, or that the game is clean on a daily basis.  There has been disagreement on how prevalent it is.

[vp612]

Well said,it is very difficult to platy a race no matter what you use when the first thing you look at is who just claimed a horse in the race.

[JimP]

No one? These were sincere questions. I would really like to hear from the players and owners why they stay in the game.

[cubfan0316]

cheating will ruin the game. would u continue to play black jack if the dealer was dealing off the bottom?

[jimbo66]

Jim,

I think you are likely asking the wrong question, at least by my view.

Check the average age of the people that are still playing this game.  At 46, I feel like a babe in the woods at the Saratoga Thorograph seminars.  The people that still play likely got \"addicted\" or \"hooked\" on it years ago and I chose those separate words intentionally.

The game is not attracting any new players, at least not in real numbers.  And that makes it a \"dying game\".  The game\'s reputation is horrible, cheating is presumed to run rampant, although technically most of us don\'t know how rampant it is, and the ones that still bet the game likely feel we can factor that into our handicapping, like sheets or track bias or trips.

I am not sure it can change, even if it is cleaned up, it just may not never get broader appeal, but a \"clean game\" would certainly help the chances that more get involved, both gambling on it and even some potential new owners.

Just a thought.

Jim

[TGJB]

1-- Nobody said \"fixed\". Wrestling is fixed. Baseball has cheaters. I still follow baseball.

2-- Cheating doesn\'t make TG or other data meaningless. Only inaccuracy can do that. Cheating makes it harder to win, but you will still do better with accurate data than without it.

3-- The answer is not to quit the game, it\'s to fix it. The other meaning of fix.

[vp612]

This game has a lot of problems,cheating is one,loss of the big time stables,Mellon,Phipps etc.,The biggest  problem is the proliferation of other types of gambling,lotto ,casino\'s etc.Also the industry has done a terrible job of promoting the game.I could go on but I don\'t want to bore you.

[jimbo66]

Vito,

Agree the problem is multi-dimensional. It certainly can\'t hurt to have the game cleaned up.  I kinda agree with you on marketing, but how about some real improvements so that the marketing has a chance for success.  Most other forms of entertainment, even within gambling, have done some \"catering\" to the players.  What has horse racing done?  A few tracks have one bet at a 15% takeout?  A few places don\'t charge admission once in awhile.  

All things in life evolve or fall by the wayside.   Not sure which way horse racing goes.......